Why not put the Car Tax On Fuel??

[tommy.irene]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3335816/End-paper-disc-sees-car-tax-evasion-soar-Number-case... ...End of paper disc sees car tax evasion soar: Number of cases of drivers dodging the annual payment has doubled in past year Number of drivers dodging the annual payment has soared to 560,000

[jd.linklater]

Yet another efficiency measure that wasn't thought through properly. Is anyone surprised that this has happened? It doesn't take a mastermind to realise that if you create a loophole some people will take advantage of it for personal profit. In answer to the question I've long been of the opinion that road tax should be added to fuel cost, it seems the fairest option to me that people who use the roads the most should pay the most for their upkeep.

Another thing I've advocated for many years is that drivers should have an insurance disc on the windscreen. The majority of the drivers now avoiding road tax are probably uninsured too and we all pay extra on our premiums to cover the actions of uninsured drivers.

[dark_castle1]

What you want then is say, someone on minimum wage that has to travel lets say 35 miles each way to work and back because there is no work in their area or maybe a retired couple on a state pension living in a rural area and have to travel say 20 miles each way for a supermarket or doctors etc and have a small car just to keep the cost down should pay more to use the roads than say someone on £50,000 a year with a big car and only travels 10 miles a day to and from work.

[dark_castle1]

Another thing is, if you put the tax on fuel instead of road tax, the cost of living would soar because haulage companies would pass the cost on to whoever they supply and they would pass the cost onto their customers namely you.

Tesco, Asda, Morrisons etc that usually supply their own supermarkets, petrol stations would also pass the cost onto their customers again you.

[jd.linklater]

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@dark_castle1 wrote:

What you want then is say, someone on minimum wage that has to travel lets say 35 miles each way to work and back because there is no work in their area or maybe a retired couple on a state pension living in a rural area and have to travel say 20 miles each way for a supermarket or doctors etc and have a small car just to keep the cost down should pay more to use the roads than say someone on £50,000 a year with a big car and only travels 10 miles a day to and from work.

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That's not what I want at all, I was just giving my opinion. I was thinking more along the lines of heavy goods vehicles which you have to admit do the highest mileage and subsequently cause the majority of the wear and tear on our roads.

I can't think of a fairer way of distributing the cost of maintaining our road network. The cost of travel has to be directly proportional to the amount of miles you travel, which is exactly the way things are if you use public transport. If tax was added to fuel I think a lot of people would consider buying more economic vehicles which would be an added bonus for the environment too.

What would be your alternative? Having people paying different prices for fuel depending on their personal circumstances? I don't see how that would work.  

[jd.linklater]

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@dark_castle1 wrote:

Another thing is, if you put the tax on fuel instead of road tax, the cost of living would soar because haulage companies would pass the cost on to whoever they supply and they would pass the cost onto their customers namely you.

Tesco, Asda, Morrisons etc that usually supply their own supermarkets, petrol stations would also pass the cost onto their customers again you.

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I can't see that leading to a 'soar' in the cost of living. Transport companies routinely pass on increased fuel costs to their customers, has it ever been any different?

[dark_castle1]

Add say 5p onto every litre of diesel, then think about the diesel a wagon uses, somewhere around 10 miles to the gallon. That would put the cost of everything up.

[jd.linklater]

If the 560,000 figure in the Daily Mail link are correct and we take the average cost of road tax as £160, the treasury are losing close to £90 million a year. What viable alternative can you come up with to counteract that amount of theft?

[tommy.irene]

We are only saying put on 2p on a gallon of petrol .. the Goverment  and Supermarkets do this all the time..There is no way to get round this..We all need fuel..

[cee-dee]

Removing the need for a tax disc on the windscreen was a mad idea.

It's OK thinking that these days ANPR does away with the need to display a disc but with no easily visible sign of compliance, people stand much more chance of "getting away with it" than before and particularly if they don't "attract attention" in other ways.

[dark_castle1]

70% of a gallon of petrol just now is tax and it has been proven that high fuel costs puts people off the road and finding other means of transport. If that happened the amount the government got would fall and that money would need to be found elsewhere.

Where would you suggest they got that ! maybe cutting NHS spending, policing, benefits or maybe raising tax in some other way ?

[dark_castle1]

j.d., as for the more economical vehicles you say people would buy, it would not make much difference because I think it is either 2016 or 2017 the road tax on said vehicles is going up to £140 per year from at the moment zero or £30 etc.

[tommy.irene]

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@dark_castle1 wrote:

70% of a gallon of petrol just now is tax and it has been proven that high fuel costs puts people off the road and finding other means of transport. If that happened the amount the government got would fall and that money would need to be found elsewhere.

Where would you suggest they got that ! maybe cutting NHS spending, policing, benefits or maybe raising tax in some other way ?

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Every couple of months the petrol goes up or down as oil is cheap ..Fuel is the only way to get the cheats.... If only 1p goes on the price the goverment is making millions.

[dark_castle1]

By the same token then, what measures should be put into place to stop tax avoidance and tax evasion ? I am quite sure that would be comparable with the people using the roads not paying tax and I think the rise they say has happened is not quite right because there were many people using cars before the tax disc disappeared with no tax.

[tommy.irene]

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/asda-petrol-prices-cut-to-997p-per-litre-on-.......A... petrol prices cut to 99.7p per litre on Black Friday - first time it's been under £1 in six years

[jd.linklater]

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@dark_castle1 wrote:

j.d., as for the more economical vehicles you say people would buy, it would not make much difference because I think it is either 2016 or 2017 the road tax on said vehicles is going up to £140 per year from at the moment zero or £30 etc.

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I was referring to vehicles that do more miles to the gallon rather than their current savings in road tax. If tax was added to fuel cost at the pumps it would make much more economic sense to switch to vehicles with smaller engines which are more energy efficient and less polluting.  

[dark_castle1]

When this subject was broached before the govenment were talking 10, 15, 20p a gallon at least ! They would not even think of 1p a gallon.

[dark_castle1]

What about the people that own a car right now that could not afford to change because of low wages and use cars that are nearing the end of life and can only buy the same again when that one is finished ?

I am not against trying to get money from the people that do not tax their car ! I am only pointing out some facts that need to be taken into consideration before we end up in the same position we are now.

[jd.linklater]

So what would be your solution to the problem of tax dodgers?

[evoman3957]

In this day and age of computers, as well as issuing a MOT on paper to the customer; they are registered on line. So all Cars over 3 years old, get taxed at the same time as they get MOT; paid to the Garage, acting on behalf of the DVLA. Then all three ( Tax, Insurance & MOT ) are logged on line against the Cars registration.  If a Car is missing either of the three on line, against its reg, the owner is visited and Tax collected at the Door; by the person visiting them. If they can't pay, a tow truck is called and the Car is impounded for 1 month; then disposed of. If a Car is missing more than one of the three, then that's a sign ( to me ) of deliberate evasion and the owner is visited and the Car is siezed and disposed of + the owners licence is taken away for 1 year. If anybody finds a way around this, they are jailed for 1 year, lose their licence for 1 year and lose their Car permanently. You don't deal with "SCUM BAGS" by making a game of it and seeing who can play the system better......them or decent people. You either solve a problem PROPERLY by doing what's necessary and having the backbone to carry it out, or you tinker with it ,in the usual gutless manner that people do and have it drag on forever.

The first three years of Tax are added onto the price of the Car, when it's bought new, payable to the DVLA by the company selling it.