The beginning?

[cee-dee]

OK, so "They" say "everything" began with the Big Bang.

Fair enough, it was quite something and happened faster than the blink of an eye?

"They" also say nothing can travel faster than light?

If that's so, how can "They" view light which "began" shortly after the Big Bang?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19728375

We are "here", they're viewing light from a heck of a long way away, such light will have taken billions of years to get here even at approximately 186,000 miles per second.

So how did we get out "here", so far from that light when it was Starlight so long ago?

OK, were we able to get to the source of that light in an instant, we'd find it was probably no longer there but we are billions of miles from where that light was so how come the matter from which our Solar System was formed got sooooo far away from the Stars they're no "seeing"?

[cee-dee]

UTCYA, "they" are those promoting theories as a fact then trying to make out they're theorems. B-)

[suzieseaside]

UTCYA, "they" are those promoting theories as a fact then trying to make out they're theorems. B-)

Who please is UTCYA?

Not this University (UTC) I presume, as there are discussions about the theory, not fact

 http://blog.utc.edu/news/2012/02/professor-to-discuss-controversy-of-the-big-bang-theory/

Do you have a link for 'those' as UTCYA who appear to be contradicting themselves according to your post?

[Anonymous]

how did we get so far away? sinple our sun is classed a second generation star. ie not one of our galaxies first. in our winter nights sky we have the constallation Orion, and within this constallation we have Orions belt and Orions sword. this is (orions sword that is) a glowing expanse of gas and dust termed a nebula. within this nebula stars are forming, and indeed the nebula shines because of four large newley formed stars within. these are stars that have formed within the last 10's of millions of years NOT 14 billion years. so theses stars are being formed well past the big bang, our sun formed the same way, 4.5 billion years ago, so a gap of 10 billion years has passed between the big bang and our sun being formed, hence the distance of these remote galaxies we are now seeing.

i said our sun is a second generation star, this is because when the first stars formed there was only hydrogen helium and a few trace elements, the other elements such as carbon, oxygen, lithium, sodium and iron can ONLY be formed within a stars core, once the element iron is reached the star will stop its reactions and implode then explode. the implosion then will create the heavier elements such as gold, uranium, (all the elements that come after iron), as the star explodes the enriched gas of the explosion continues outwards interacting with the inter stellar medium or another gasious nebula enriching the nebula with new elements, and as that neblua contracts to form a new star that stars system will also be enriched. hence the saying "we are star stuff" every atom in our bodies came from the death of a first generation star.

[cee-dee]

Hi Pete. The thing is...... those supposed places so far away and described as being so many billion years old and that may not be there now..... How did we get so far away from them that it's taken so long for the light from them to get here?

If we're so far away from them, the matter from which we were created must have travelled faster than the speed of light before slowing down so the light from those far off places can "catch up"? But we're told everything is accelerating?

Now, in space, bits of "stuff" will "clump together" and that goes for particles as well as "more solid" bits. So, in order for things to clump together, they must have mass? With me so far?

It's said (??) that at the moment of the big bang, "stuff" had no mass, if it had no mass, it couldn't clump together? Sooooooo, is this stuff with no mass able to travel faster than the speed of light?("stuff" with mass isn't supposed to be able to travel at the speed of light?)

So, this stuff with no mass travels faster than the speed of light and later somehow gains mass in order that it can clump together?

Yes, I know our solar system formed from the debris of previous star systems but some of the theories don't stand up unless they create an "unknown" to make it all work or fit.

One school of thought brings in Dark Matter, another goes on about Dark Energy but yet another school of thought says Dark Energy might not exist!

The Dark Matter (DM) issue is now Cold DM, Warm DM, Hot DM, Mixed DM and how many more DM theories?

Heck, it's late, I'm off out with the dog.

[Anonymous]

hi CD, at the instant of the big bang (or the instant our universe came to exist) as said there was no matter, as atoms had not yet formed, the building blocks of the atoms had though. at the first instant of the big bang temperatures would have been in the millions of degrees C and as a consequence the elements of the first atoms could not join to form atoms or matter.  as the universe expanded it coolled and as such the fundamental atomic particles would slow down allowing them to then join into atoms then matter. at that instant of matter creation weight was produced and the speed of light permanently fixed.

re this dark matter, at the moment no one knows just what the extra weight the universe requires to be as it is, DM is the 21st centurys answer to the flat world therory. ie they only see what they can see, not what is actually there.

[cee-dee]

Hiya Pete.

Yes, OK, at the instant of the Big Bang things would have been pretty warm, but you can't have heat without "something" being heated!

All along, I'm not claiming to "know better" than people who do (know better) but what I am claiming is that "they" speak about things as a fact when they're only theories.

You never hear "them" say that they don't know for sure when that bit (they don't know for sure) is a fact!

Taking logic about it all along a bit.... what is supposed to have been heated to millions (billions?) of ºC?????? Atoms hadn't formed but something must have formed for there to have been anything to heat!

OK, as "it" cooled, particles formed, atoms formed, clumping started but what was it that must have been there to have any heat?

"They" glibly trot out these things but they never say that they just don't know.

Anyway, who says the speed of light was fixed? They don't know. If what they say is true, that there was nothing there, no particles/atoms/mass because "it" hadn't formed "yet", there would have been no light but whatever was "heated" might have been travelling much faster than what we now consider to be the speed of light and as it cooled/slowed then particles/atoms/mass all formed and so "light appeared" but how fast was it going at the time of appearance?

Now they're theorising that Dark Flow isn't randomly distributed, it appears to be in a common direction?

[*forum*decorum*]

Hi CD...everyone...:-x

Hiya Pete.

Yes, OK, at the instant of the Big Bang things would have been pretty warm, but you can't have heat without "something" being heated!

All along, I'm not claiming to "know better" than people who do (know better) but what I am claiming is that "they" speak about things as a fact when they're only theories.

You never hear "them" say that they don't know for sure when that bit (they don't know for sure) is a fact!

Taking logic about it all along a bit.... what is supposed to have been heated to millions (billions?) of ºC?????? Atoms hadn't formed but something must have formed for there to have been anything to heat!

OK, as "it" cooled, particles formed, atoms formed, clumping started but what was it that must have been there to have any heat?

"They" glibly trot out these things but they never say that they just don't know.

Anyway, who says the speed of light was fixed? They don't know. If what they say is true, that there was nothing there, no particles/atoms/mass because "it" hadn't formed "yet", there would have been no light but whatever was "heated" might have been travelling much faster than what we now consider to be the speed of light and as it cooled/slowed then particles/atoms/mass all formed and so "light appeared" but how fast was it going at the time of appearance?

Now they're theorising that Dark Flow isn't randomly distributed, it appears to be in a common direction?

I know you say "Oh dear" to my (the bibles explination) but it really intrigues me how you can have such a good logical well thought through opinion like that and then dismiss a simple and logical one like I put forward.

Tis a very interesting discussion though.:-x

[cee-dee]

I say "oh dear" so I don't offend your faith by using logic to discount your "explanation".

[Anonymous]

hi CD if you are saying they are treating theories as fact, then they are wrong. a theory is just that........a theory only untill proven beyond doubt then its fact. at present we can only theorise at the big bang (as no one was there to wittiness it). at present the big bang theory 99.9% fits into what astronomers are observing, BUT its the 0.1% that stops the theory from being fact. at present astronomers have a "working theory" the best so far, that is untill a better theory comes along to replace the old one.

[cee-dee]

Quite so Pete, but if you read a lot of the "scientific" sites, they do yak on about theories as if they are fact.

[Anonymous]

thats why CD i mostly start my replies with "they say" or "at present" on topics such as this one.

[*forum*decorum*]

I say "oh dear" so I don't offend your faith by using logic to discount your "explanation".

I appreciate the fact you don't wish to offend CD, I wouldn't take it personally, you wouldn't offend me.

I would be interested in your logic to attempt to discount the explanation I agree with, seriously.......:-)

[cee-dee]

Where exactly are you starting time-wise, (in years ago)?

Where does God stand with the end of the Earth? The Earth will end when the Sun gradually runs out of fuel, expands and roasts the Earth to a cinder.

Also, please explain where God stands with the end of everything? In time (which supposedly began at the moment of creation) all the stars will die and so will everything else.

[*forum*decorum*]

I will answer in the best way I know how:-x

Where exactly are you starting time-wise, (in years ago)?

As far as I understand, you and others or talking big bang (Theory or not?) Many stating that was the start of everything universe and earth and mankind. Mankind, many believe to be as a result of evolution kickstarted by the big bang.

So I am saying, time itself goes way way before that, no length "of" can be known or quoted by anyone of mankind.

Where does God stand with the end of the Earth?

God has never stated the earth will end, He promises mankind everlasting life on the earth so it will never end.

The Earth will end when the Sun gradually runs out of fuel, expands and roasts the Earth to a cinder.

If God promised everlasting life to people on this planet then all that sustains this planet, they the sun the moon stars etc will never cease either.

The planet earth was made with an eco system able to sustain it forever. The same too with the universe.

Mankind was also made with the ability to keep living forever, although I can understand why many would not be able to comprehend that.

As God is the creator of the heavens and the earth he is the one that will keep them in existance forever.

As I said back in my other post.

God has always been in existance he has had no begining and will have no end. He has always been there.

It is absolutley impossible to disprove that.  What I can say is that he has given us much information, knowledge, facts, explanations, prophesies and eye witness accounts in his word the Bible to help us understand and prove to ourselves that he does exist, and he is the creator of all things.

It is up to us what we do with that information and what we decide is true or not. It is fact that there is a God whether we believe it or not doesn't change that.

Of course that is the conclusion I and many others have come to after looking into the bible. We cannot make people believe in anything they do not want to believe in.

[*forum*decorum*]

I will answer in the best way I know how:-x

Where exactly are you starting time-wise, (in years ago)?

As far as I understand, you and others or talking big bang (Theory or not?) Many stating that was the start of everything universe and earth and mankind. Mankind, many believe to be as a result of evolution kickstarted by the big bang.

So I am saying, time itself goes way way before that, no length "of" can be known or quoted by anyone of mankind.

Where does God stand with the end of the Earth?

God has never stated the earth will end, He promises mankind everlasting life on the earth so it will never end.

The Earth will end when the Sun gradually runs out of fuel, expands and roasts the Earth to a cinder.

If God promised everlasting life to people on this planet then all that sustains this planet, they the sun the moon stars etc will never cease either.

The planet earth was made with an eco system able to sustain it forever. The same too with the universe.

Mankind was also made with the ability to keep living forever, although I can understand why many would not be able to comprehend that.

As God is the creator of the heavens and the earth he is the one that will keep them in existance forever.

As I said back in my other post.

God has always been in existance he has had no begining and will have no end. He has always been there.

It is absolutley impossible to disprove that.  What I can say is that he has given us much information, knowledge, facts, explanations, prophesies and eye witness accounts in his word the Bible to help us understand and prove to ourselves that he does exist, and he is the creator of all things.

It is up to us what we do with that information and what we decide is true or not. It is fact that there is a God whether we believe it or not doesn't change that.

Of course that is the conclusion I and many others have come to after looking into the bible. We cannot make people believe in anything they do not want to believe in.

[cee-dee]

Tell me where God is supposed to have said this? The bible was created and written by Man.

Writing as we know it is only a few thousand years old.

As to God promising that the Earth, Moon, Stars and Universe will live for ever, that statement is sadly mistaken and if you believe that, you're going to be disappointed.

[*forum*decorum*]

Tell me where God is supposed to have said this? The bible was created and written by Man.

God tells us this in the bible, yes the bible was penned by men but rather like a secretary would write for their boss. God directed them by means of his holy spirit or as it is sometimes described as his active force.

He on occassions told them what to specifically write, others times they had a free hand to describe things in their own words.it depended on the content of what was to be penned.

Writing as we know it is only a few thousand years old.

We of course are only talking 6 thousand years where man is concerned as explained by creation.

As to God promising that the Earth, Moon, Stars and Universe will live for ever, that statement is sadly mistaken and if you believe that, you're going to be disappointed.

With the greated of respect CD, it is not a mistaken statement and it is impossible for you to prove otherwise. I don't believe I will be disappointed, time will tell and we have learned that that time is not far off.:-)

[Anonymous]

hi FD, tyou have faith in god and i for onre will never try to take that away or mock any faith, in saying that you know there has to be a but............but the earths eco system i am sorry to say has evolved and still is. the very oxygen we breathe is by earth standard time frame  new. it is fact that millions of years ago this planets atmosphere was mostly C02 with a methane carbohydrates mix. even going back to the start of the dinosaur era the carbon dioxide levels were much higher than today. the gas oxygen is a by product ( a waste gas) that was expelled by primitive plants long before the first T Rex walked the planet. the eco system we have today as said has evolved even trees as we know them, grass and flowering plants are all relativly new.

we can only speculate at how earths eco system will evolve, at present we the humans are killing it.    

[Anonymous]

hi FD if the stars are to live forever then whats gone wrong. this is an actual picture (the crab nebula) of an exploded star. this star is no longer and this is the reminants of the star being flung into interstellar space (as i described in an earlier post about enrichment).the colours are true and ech colour is an element red is hydrogen, blue/green is oxygen. i could post 100s more of simular pictures but this one is the best, as this one was seen to explode by the chineese 1000 years ago. our sun will not go the same way as its to small, instead it will expand engulfing the inner planets, roasting them to a blackened life less cinder.

[cee-dee]

Trying to be polite....... how on Earth (I nearly said "in Heavens name"!) do you claim God is supposed to have told Man what to write?

The whole thing is a collection of ancient myths and stories all cobbled together to explain what, at the time was inexplicable and to suit those with (at that time) a vested interest in maintaining a form of control over the population.

When people say "With the greatest respect" what they really want to say is completely lacking in respect and mostly unprintable!

The Sun will definitely die as I (and Pete) said. It will gradually consume all its Hydrogen and start burning Helium. The Sun will expand and get hotter and hotter and eventually the Earth will have all its atmosphere vapourised and the water all boiled off before the whole Planet fries to a cinder.

As that's a few billion years away yet, I won't worry about it.