The Vote.

[astrologica]

Watching the Parliamentary debate on the bombing question today, I am still undecided as to how I feel about it. Can I ask all our friends on here...If you were an MP in Parliament today and had to cast your vote this evening...how would you vote?

[cee-dee]

It's not necessary to "quote" every mortal thing, what's the point?

[joe_bloggs*]

I was just trying to work out the point of your last post?

[evoman3957]

What's the point indeed, when somebody is so Tribal; that they'd vote for a Pig in a Bowler Hat with a Swastika on it, as long as it led their party.......there is no point.  Indoctrinated from Birth, they lose the ability to think or reason outside of their tribe; just like Sunni, Shia or Boko Haram......no difference.

[joe_bloggs*]

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@evoman3957 wrote:

What's the point indeed, when somebody is so Tribal; that they'd vote for a Pig in a Bowler Hat with a Swastika on it, as long as it led their party.......there is no point.  Indoctrinated from Birth, they lose the ability to think or reason outside of their tribe; just like Sunni, Shia or Boko Haram......no difference.

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[evoman3957]

I still luv ya though..........God knows why !

[joe_bloggs*]

Straight from the horses mouth:

an activist collective that operates secretly in Raqqa, the capital of Isis’s self-proclaimed caliphate, condemned the airstrikes, saying Britain should accept more refugees if it wished to help Syrians.

“Just bombing Isis in Raqqa from the sky will not defeat Isis but it will make people suffer more,” the group Raqqa Is Being Slaughtered Silently said in a series of tweets. “Isis will use UK strikes to recruit new people in the west and new fighters.”

“The strange thing is all the world wants to fight Isis but not even one country dare to send one soldier to fight Isis on the ground,” it added.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/03/first-british-airstrikes-in-syria-target-isis-controlle...

[evoman3957]

See........that's why doing ANYTHING in Life in half measures, NEVER pays off.  Either keep your nose out of something altogether, or "NUKE EM" either way..........it's over.........finished !!

[cee-dee]

Yes, if they send in ground troops they'd go in with one arm tied behind their back and possibly a leg too!

[fallen-archie]

Too Late! the expeditionary force is completing its training and this time someone has done the homework, This will really challenge daesh, they will be quaking in their frocks 🙂

[merehazle]

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@joe_bloggs* wrote:

Straight from the horses mouth:

an activist collective that operates secretly in Raqqa, the capital of Isis’s self-proclaimed caliphate, condemned the airstrikes, saying Britain should accept more refugees if it wished to help Syrians.

“Just bombing Isis in Raqqa from the sky will not defeat Isis but it will make people suffer more,” the group Raqqa Is Being Slaughtered Silently said in a series of tweets. “Isis will use UK strikes to recruit new people in the west and new fighters.”

“The strange thing is all the world wants to fight Isis but not even one country dare to send one soldier to fight Isis on the ground,” it added.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/03/first-british-airstrikes-in-syria-target-isis-controlle...

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'Straight from the horses mouth' See attachment:

That would be Kareem Shaheen in Beirut?

''The strange thing is all the world wants to fight Isis but not even one country dare to send in one soldier to fight Isis on the ground'',  IT added. 

Is IT sure?  Is someone wanting to suggest that the rest of the world are cowards? I think so

I thought it was Isis that wanted to fight all the world. And I think their wish has been granted. Love your link searches by the way      

[joe_bloggs*]

Bit strange?

On the 23rd of October, the UK press reported that Russian and US planes had completely “obliterated” the Omar oil field in Syria which is under the control of Daesh:

“The terrorists’ oil field in eastern Syria was obliterated in a day of bombing conducted by both Russia and the US-led coalition. US operations officer Major Michael Filanowski told reporters in Baghdad the Omar oil field was blitzed, heavily damaging the lucrative funding source for ISIS.”

But yesterday the same press is reporting the same “obliterated” oil field was hit by UK airstrikes:

“Four Tornados took off from RAF Akrotiri, Cyprus just an hour after MPs voted in favour of launching airstrikes in the war-torn country. The jets struck targets in the Omar oil field in Eastern Syria, dealing a “real blow” to the death cult, also known as Daesh.”

[artful_dodgings]

As CeeDee states back there, instead of simply faffing around the edges, rain a few bombs down on the death cult's lairs, Ragga and Mosul, razing them both to the ground. Working on the premise that the end justifies the means, of course.

Some good posts on here by Evoman.

[joe_bloggs*]

What happens to the civilains who are being held as human shields by isis in those areas?

[cee-dee]

Simple, they get bumped off too.

[joe_bloggs*]

Frankie Boyles take on it:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/04/isis-wants-an-insane-medieval-race-war-and-weve...

"Hilary Benn, the product of his father’s tempestuous affair with Lembit Opik, showed a fighting spirit that was direct proof of Johnny Cash’s A Boy Named Sue. I think it’s worth remembering that if you say something and Tories start cheering, then you have said something awful."

Islamic State practise a brand of Islamic law so strict that apparently Raqqa only has two Irish Pubs.

I wonder if the Commons really understands or cares that they are making Britain a target. How affected will MPs be by terrorism? In their high-security lives, the only fear they have of an attack on a bus is that the waiters will be late for a drinks reception.

I think we live in a country that sometimes forgets how effective the rule of law is, perhaps because our governments have often found it inconvenient.

We invest a vast amount of money in intelligence and terrorists have to, by their nature, take risks: cross borders, move weapons. I think the most effective place for those guys to end up is not in a martyr video, but in a small but comfortable jail cell. Somewhere in Kent, perhaps. No paradise, no virgins, no meaning leant by us to their stupidity, no glory, no attention. Just a guard wishing them a bland good morning, and a regular change of towels. And if you think that’s insufficient punishment, give them a television that only gets terrestrial, and all our newspapers everyday.

[fallen-archie]

Frankie Boyle? when did he ever count for anything, he needs a shave and a job, once he understands the meaning of graft then and only then will he stand for the working class.

Meanwhile the latest Isis video proudly shows young kids learning how to shoot hostages and even cut their throats, not with dummies but with innocent human beings. What does it take for some lefties to understand.

[joe_bloggs*]

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@fallen-archie wrote:

Frankie Boyle? when did he ever count for anything, he needs a shave and a job, once he understands the meaning of graft then and only then will he stand for the working class.

Meanwhile the latest Isis video proudly shows young kids learning how to shoot hostages and even cut their throats, not with dummies but with innocent human beings. What does it take for some lefties to understand.

Good comment after that article:

For the uninformed who seem to think that Frankie Boyle doesn't understand the complexities of our lovely new war because they've 'heard all about it' and 'know evil when they see it', there's probably not much hope of rational argument.

As he points out, the constant replaying of Benn's speech - which was emotional but completely without any rationale based in the reality he was claiming to discuss - has shown the Government's willingness to try and use a war to destabilise Corbyn's leadership.
I know, it sounds so cynical... but as is becoming apparent, the BBC - along with the other hacks plying their trade through the corporate media - are desperate to get back to the cosy old alliance, when we had two sides of the same silver spoon bantering with each other over the Despatch Box.

The fact that Corbyn stuck to his principles - reminding us of the illegal slaughter in Iraq, as well as Cameron's first foreign adventure destroying a functioning state in Libya, being party to the murder of its previous leader, and being directly responsible for the flood of refugees across the Med - just makes them all feel a bit uncomfortable.
The dead Turkish boy on the beach ? Indirectly, Camo bears responsibility; and as the head of a Government taking British forces without any international mandate into a sovereign country, he - like Blair - will be liable for prosecution for any war crimes committed by the UK on his watch.
Just like Milosevic, m'lud...

All the promises to stand side-by-side with the Libyan people after the regime fell?
Absolute lies, delivered like the PR man he is.
Oh, and what was the other result of the bombing of Libya?
Well, strangely, apart from destroying civilian infrastructure - a war crime - the jets also managed (with the help of our special forces) to open up all the regime's army depots so they could be looted by .... well, by all those nice folk who've ended up beheading, **bleep** and enslaving in the so-called 'Caliphate'.

And if it all went so badly, why are we repeating the same thing in Syria?
Because the media always forget so quickly, don't they? Nothing to do with the fact that they had been such enthusiastic cheerleaders for the last slaughter, and the one before that, ad infinitum...
And also because when the USA tells us to jump, our masters' will jump over any cliff they're directed towards...

As even some of those cheerleaders have pointed out, there are so many contradictions in the UK's rationale to bomb built-up areas of civilians to kill a few thousand members of a criminal gang.
Let no-one believe that the US has changed its aim in Syria.
It wants to smash the 'Shia Crescent', which is Iran>Syria>Lebanon, to ensure that Saudi Arabia can continue to dominate the region (and religion).
It wants to divide Syria into several, powerless ethnically based 'statelets' that its corporations can dominate and asset-strip.
This will also allow Israel to 'inherit' the Golan Heights' - still illegally held and 'settled' - which is now the source of the greatest oil find in the last few years.
And the murderous jihadists?
Well, apparently they're already back in Libya, setting up a new terror-state ruled from Sirte.
So that's all working out fine, isn't it?

[merehazle]

For others that might be uninformed:

This is a message that bears repeating, no matter where you live in the world, especially when they occur at or near high profile high profile sites or places where large numbers of people gather - like government buildings, military facilities, bus or train stations, major public events. If you see or know about suspicious activities, like the ones listed below, please report them immediately to the to the proper authorities. In the United States, that means your closest Joint Terrorist Task Force, located in a FBI field office. In other countries, that means your closest law.

Surveillance: ARE you aware of anyone video recording or monitoring activities, taking note, using cameras, maps binoculars, etc, near key facilities/events?

 Are you aware of anyone attempting to gain information in person by phone, using mail, email, etc., regarding a key facility or people who work there?

Test Security: Are you aware of any attempts to penetrate or test physical security or proceedures at a key facility/event?

Acquiring Supplies: Are you aware of anyone attempting to improperly aquire explosives, weapons, ammunition, dangerous chemicals, uniforms, badges, flight manuals, access cards or identification for a key facility/event?

''Dry Runs '' : Have you observed any  behavior that appears to be preperation for a terrorist act, such as mapping out routes, playing out scenarios with other people, monitoring key  facilities/events, timing traffic lights or traffic flow, or other suspicious activities?

If you answered yes to any of the above...if you have observed any suspicious activity that may relate to terrorism...again, please contact the Joint Terrorist Task Force or law inforcement/counterterrorism agency closest to you immediately. You could save the lives of innocent people, just like you and yours.

[artful_dodgings]

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@joe_bloggs* wrote:

What happens to the civilains who are being held as human shields by isis in those areas?

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It's a sad fact but an inevitability that in a state of war, innocent people lose their lives. Which is precisely why I said that in this scenario, the end justifies the means,

[fallen-archie]

So far the missions into Syria have been small but precise, degrading the ability of Isis to launder money through oil. While in the US a couple thought to be Isis sympathisers go on a shooting rampage. So the fundamental islamist Ideology seeks maximum terror, The fundamental Loony Left ideology says ignore them as if they were internet Trolls. That leaves a large majority from all walks of life who are thankfully prepared to defend themselves and not be dictated to by one minority or another, Not warmongers just average people wanting to live their lives free from the threat of terrorists.