So Long & thanks for all the Fish

[al**bear]

The US Presidential election result

 in one movie clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzY-s_Qxfr0

[theelench]

OMG

[theelench]

Just put the radio on. Already the $ is falling and they're talking about recession.

[aand2136-voqfz8yx]

Once again the people have spoken out against the establishment. Those in power and authority have ruled in their own favour for too long. Brexit, the US Presendential election and also others around the world.

Europe take heed, with particular regard to the French and German elections next year

How apt that Bob Dylan who wrote "The Times They Are A-Changin'", won the Nobel prize for Literature this year.

[evoman3957]

and for those MP's, politicians, money men / women, smart aris legal eagles......who are contemplating even thinking about circumventing the will of the people, regarding Brexit, you are walking on very thin ice and the chasm below, should that ice break, will spell your doom..........so don't squeal like stuck Pigs as you sink into the abyss.

[theelench]

Yes, another vote by ordinary people against a status quo that does not work for the majority and an establishment that has no interest in changing the situation.

R4 had an ex-Cameron adviser now in California who quoted from some Federal statistics that over 50% of Americans haven't seen any real pay rise since 2007 and yet the rich still keep getting richer.  This, I think, is what is really going on, people generally are informed enough to realise that low economic growth means they will be worse off, all the growth is channeled to the already wealthy.  It is a vote in favour of spreading the wealth more equitably. 

I wonder what the same figure in the UK would be, I would guess it would be worse with ever increasing numbers of people going onto Minimum Wage and part-time work.

Falling real incomes for the majority doesn't make economic sense, lower spending power means lower growth.  The wealthy do not spend their money, they invest it taking it out of circulation.  They invest in debt, which keeps the house of cards standing as poorer people borrow to stay afloat.  They invest in insurance and utilities which is why the prices rise automatically each year to pay dividends.  So the poor stay poor as prices rise faster than pay while the rich get richer by pocketing the dividends but not spending them.  

Real growth in income for the majority is what people are voting for.

[upthecreekyetagain]

According to the Office for National Statistics average, (median), household income recovered last year back to the 2008, (pre banking crisis), levels.

So yes you are right about incomes but I don't understand why that would encourage voters to support someone like Trump that wants to repeal universal healthcare laws, tighten up the welfare support such as it is, hasn't paid tax for 8 years and so on . . . . it sounds like turkeys voting for Christmas.

[theelench]

Yes they did and during those seven years executive and board-room pay increases continued to accelerate away from the pay rates of employees.  Despite the govt. cutting everything in sight MPs voted themselves a couple of hefty pay rises and while further wrecking the retirement hopes of millions awarded themselves the best public service pension scheme in the world.  The people that ran the banks continued to award each other rises, bonuses and share options while shutting branches and making thousands redundant.  Bankrupting small businesses and putting more thousands out of work or on short hours.

That's where the anger comes from, coupled with the frustration that with the system as it is for most people nothing will change.  Temporary contracts, part-time work and low pay are a barrier that prevents far too many from getting any real assets, the key that opens the door to real future prosperity.

That was, IMO, partly why Brexit won the referendum.  A vote against the establishment and a system that isn't working for the majority.  May might understand this, hence the "Things must change" speech.

In the USA Trump has articulated that same mood.  Harnessing the "Main Street v Wall Street" battleground and the Americans willingness to sacrifice current healthcare and handouts for a chance again to gain real long term prosperity.  His "Forgotten Man" speech promising that everyone will have the opportunity to achieve their potential is what these elections were really about.  The system as it operates now is a travesty of capitalism.  The majority are squeezed when times are hard but but get little reward for working hard when times are good.  The few at the top piling up more billions that they can never usefully use while everyone else slowly sinks into declining and debt ridden living standards.

[joe_bloggs*]

Bit of good news to come out of all this:

[upthecreekyetagain]

Trump may have "articulated that mood" but he has been a major beneficiary from the global capitalist system in the US.  If you want to remove the 'elite money system' why would you vote for a man who has done everything possible to make personal gains from that system. 

From multiple asset stripping bankruptcies, paying minimum wages, exporting jobs, favouring foreign resources over US ones - even his declared policies, such as they are support big business from the reduction of business and personal taxes, deregulation and the removal of worker's rights.

i can understand the 'mood' of the electorate but not their actions.

[theelench]

The mood is the same on both sides of the pond, distrust of the elite and increasing frustration with a financial system that isn't working for the majority.

The result is the same, an election result that takes the elite by surprise and amounts to a rejection of them and their agendas.

The questions asked of the electorates were different but the answer the same in both countries.  The majority don't trust the professional politicians who ignore them and expect them to carry on getting poorer without protest.  Trump won because no matter how horrible he is one thing he definitely is not is a career politician, not a Washington insider and he constantly repeated his belief that the "little guy" should be listened to.  The same in the UK.  Some of UKIPs policies are not so good but UKIP are not Westminster insiders and Farage led what he called the "peoples army"

These votes were not so much "for" anything, they were a vote against the establishment and the status quo.

I never said I want to remove what you call the "elite money system".  I don't think anyone in either election called for that.  Capitalism is without a doubt the best way we have found to create wealth and distribute it widely.  The issue is that since the 80s capitalism has been going backwards, wealth has been moving only upwards.  The increasing prosperity of the majority during the 40s - 70s has to be returned to by reforming the checks and balances that enabled it to happen. 

These election results IMO are giving notice to the elite that if they can't or won't do that they will be replaced. 

[al**bear]

In the UK & US, the Working Class/US Blue collar voters, who helped win both the Referendum & US Election - will end up worse off

They might have decided to give the Establishment a kick, but they have mistakenly let the Financial sharks loose in their own Pool - it will not be long until these predatory Capitalists show how sharp their teeth are and they'll go for the weak and powerless first, ie the Working class/ Blue colour minnows 

[evoman3957]

Socialist governments don't work, because they spend money like water; without earning it first. The concept of having to make money, before you can spend it, seems to be beyond them and they therefore leave us ( the country ) in debt when they depart. Capitalist governments don't work, because they have a concept; that the money the whole country makes, should go to an elite few and therefore, when they leave, they leave the majority of the people poorer and the elite richer. In the 60's, the Beatles ( pop group ) made the record " Taxman "......at the time; they were paying 19 shillings and 6 pence in every pound in Tax.

[cee-dee]

I think one word is missing from the discussion and there's been no distinction between it and another word.

The two words are earning and exploitation.

Earning are what you get from working, exploitation is what you get by being "crafty".

It's quite possible for "an ordinary working man" to use his noddle and make quite substantial means from working and making good decisions to boost his earnings. He'll never be part of "The Elite" but he will have more means than other working blokes who haven't managed their affairs so well.

On the other hand, there's those who use their noddle to exploit others. By that I mean that they've had an idea which is desirable to many and exploit them by overcharging for their idea.

You can't go from starting with next to nothing up to becoming a billionaire (many times over?) without exploiting people. By that I mean something which, after you've thought it out can be produced for a miniscule amount and then sold on for an enormous percentage increase.

I think many readers here are using one such product?

There's nothing elitist about it. However, once you've "done it", you might then consider yourself part of "The Elite"?