Should Faith/Religion Have Such a High Value In Our Society?

lambsy_uk
Conversationalist

I'm not here to trample all over people's faith/beliefs but to ask if/why such beliefs should hold such high value in our society?

 

So where am I comming from? Well we can freely question almost anything in our society/lives; morals, political beliefs, actions and reactions, motivations, interactions, foreign policy, education, welfare, how we raise our children, law and order and so on..........

 

However we are positively discouraged from questioning people's faith/beliefs/religion! We are also actively encouraged to accommodate and allow for people's religious beliefs, and this is the bit that really irks me! Why is it that if something is done in the name of a religious belief/practice then we are expected to accept it with little fuss where if any other excuse were used we'd be up in arms?

 

We endure arguments of whether animal rights should take precedence over religion, whether saving the life of a child should take precedence over their parent's beliefs, should freedom of expression take precedence over religious sensitivities?

 

For me you may as well base stuff on the football team you support;

 

"I can't comply with the company dress code because I'm a United fan and therefore I must be allowed to wear a United shirt at work."

 

As far as I'm concerned this is no more ridiculous than anything done/not done in the name of religious beliefs!

 

So why do religious beliefs hold such high status and is it right that they do?

 

 

 

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Should Faith/Religion Have Such a High Value In Our Society?

http://www.themuslimtimes.org/2012/11/australia/prime-minister-julia-gillard-australias-message-to-m....   Read the comments from the Muslims..they are good.. 

......................................................................................................................................................................................................... .................Im a 76 year old Nutcase.. TOMMY LOVES YOU ALL. .. I'm a committed atheist.
Message 41 of 625
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"Tommy....don't feel bad for having a moan! I'm 70, and I agree with so many things in your post. I lie awake at night thinking about the state of this country, and the world we live in. It's so depressing. I have four grandchildren, all working adults, and I really hope that they don't have any children of their own. The way this country is going it will be very difficult for them, and I feel they will be better off with just themselves to worry about.!"

 

 

Don't do it! You sound like my Dad, he spends too much time worrying and saying "that's the way things are these days." Well firstly there is no point in worrying, it will do you no good and it won't change anything, and actually things are not that bad, certainly no worse than they used to be! My Dad ended up with anxiety attacks and having to attend relaxation classes, and for what?, for no real reason!

 

Yes I have much I can moan about and much I could have lengthy discussions about, but at the end of the day I say "feck it/feck em", and I forget all about it and get on with my life.

 

I have children and I have no fear that their lives will be much of a struggle, we don't really struggle here, not when you see how others struggle around the World.

 

I believe we are fortunate, fortunate to live in a developed and democratic nation such as our's. Yes it is not perfect but after all is said and done it is pretty good!

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@tommy.irene wrote:

 

 

I'm 75 Except for brief period in the 50's when I was doing my National Service, I've worked hard since I was 17. Except for some some serious health challenges, I put in 50-hour weeks, and didn't call in sick in nearly 40 years. I made a reasonable salary, but I didn't inherit my job or my income, and I worked to get where I am. Given the economy, it looks as though retirement was a bad idea, and I'm tired. Very tired. 

I'm tired of being told that I have to "spread the wealth" to people who don't have my work ethic. I'm tired of being told the government will take the money I earned, by force if necessary, and give it to people too lazy to earn it. 

I'm tired of being told that Islam is a "Religion of Peace," when every day I can read dozens of stories of Muslim men killing their sisters, wives and daughters for their family "honour"; of Muslims rioting over some slight offense; of Muslims murdering Christian and Jews because they aren't "believers"; of Muslims burning schools for girls; of Muslims stoning teenage **bleep** victims to death for "adultery"; of Muslims mutilating the genitals of little girls; all in the name of Allah, because the Qur'an and Shari'a law tells them to. 

I'm tired of being told that out of "tolerance for other cultures" we must let Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries use our oil money to fund mosques and mandrassa Islamic schools to preach hate in Australia, New Zealand, UK, America and Canada, while no one from these countries are allowed to fund a church, synagogue or religious school in Saudi Arabia or any other Arab country to teach love and tolerance.. 

I'm tired of being told I must lower my living standard to fight global warming, which no one is allowed to debate.

I'm tired of being told that drug addicts have a disease, and I must help support and treat them, and pay for the damage they do. Did a giant germ rush out of a dark alley, grab them, and stuff white powder up their noses or stick a needle in their arm while they tried to fight it off? 

I'm tired of hearing wealthy athletes, entertainers and politicians of all parties talking about innocent mistakes, stupid mistakes or youthful mistakes, when we all know they think their only mistake was getting caught. I'm tired of people with a sense of entitlement, rich or poor. 

I'm really tired of people who don't take responsibility for their lives and actions. I'm tired of hearing them blame the government, or discrimination or big-whatever for their problems. 

I'm also tired and fed up with seeing young men and women in their teens and early 20's bedeck them selves in tattoos and face studs, thereby making themselves un-employable and claiming money from the Government. 

Yes, I'm damn tired. But I'm also glad to be 75. Because, mostly, I'm not going to have to see the world these people are making. I'm just sorry for my grandchildren and their children. Thank God I'm on the way out and not on the way in. 

Im just in a moaning mood tonight..

GOOD ''MOANING'' .... and it certainly was Tommy. Very well said.

 

MUM has offered to nurse you ....again.  But no naughty behaviour like last time.

 

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We hope your hooter is better too.

 

 

 

Message 43 of 625
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Should Faith/Religion Have Such a High Value In Our Society?

My intention was not for this to be a moan about Muslims but religion as a whole and all that's done in its name.

 

There's plenty of moaning from Christians, Jews and all sorts when they are worried about getting their way!

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@lambsy_uk wrote:

My intention was not for this to be a moan about Muslims but religion as a whole and all that's done in its name.

 

There's plenty of moaning from Christians, Jews and all sorts when they are worried about getting their way!


Yes your right.. but not all religions want to change people to their way of thinking and change laws of a country..

 

......................................................................................................................................................................................................... .................Im a 76 year old Nutcase.. TOMMY LOVES YOU ALL. .. I'm a committed atheist.
Message 45 of 625
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"Yes your right.. but not all religions want to change people to their way of thinking and change laws of a country.."

 

 

Come on now Tommy, remember the Conquistadors? Why is South America such a Catholic stronghold?

Message 46 of 625
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It's similar in character to the Weather, a gentle breeze can trasform in time into a Tornado. As it passes over different terrains, over time and distance, it gathers strength and morphs into something completely different to how it began. we should be more careful that an innocuous whisper in the wrong ear now, doesn't morph into a war cry for our grandchildren. Sad, i know, that the world is such; that we have to tread on eggshells in some places...........but it is what it is and Armageddon will be mankinds ultimate achievement.

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Armageddon will be mankinds ultimate achievement.

 

Armageddon is what God believers are looking forward to, they want it to happen, the fact the believe it means huge numbers of non believers will perish is of no consequence.

 

That's why ultimately they are all death cults.

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Message 48 of 625
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.............and one can't tell them that they are going to be Oh so disappointed, because they won't be around to experience the disappointment..............brainwashing at it's best.........no downside for them.

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Dies Irae!




**********Sam**********
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Tomorrow is Friday 13th.

 

Believers would do well to remember that on Friday 13th 1307 the Knights Templar were all rounded up and subsequently tortured on charges invented by the Pope and the King.

 

One of the tortures was smearing the feet with Lard and roasting them before a fire. One poor chap was taken in to Court to "confess" carrying a box containing his blackened bones which had dropped out.....

 

Jacques de Molay, the last Grand Master was tortured and imprisoned for seven years before they finally burned him alive, slowly, at the stake.

 

Now tell me that such "believing" wouldn't lead to similar atrocities if allowed to "take over"?



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

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If you take your morals from the Bible, nothing is forbidden as long as you praise God while you're doing it.

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Message 52 of 625
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Although much is done in the name of religio Cee-Dee, I think much is also done to promote power over others, and I'd suggest your's is an example of such.

 

So it's not believing that led to such attrocities but the will to impose power and have it authorised; and to claim authorisation by God was their ultimate tool!

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They'd use that "belief" to excercise power once again if allowed free rein.

 

It always was and always will be "Do as I say not do as I do". Also, "All Men are equal, but some are more equal than others".

 

That means that the hierarchy will do what they like, the minions will do as they're told.



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

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I am genuinely finding this thread very interesting, thank you.

 

I also agree with quite a lot of it too.Smiley Happy

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Message 55 of 625
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"That means that the hierarchy will do what they like, the minions will do as they're told"

 

 

One reason why we are lucky to live in a place where generally power is authorised by the people rather than a deity!

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No Lambsy.....we don't have to struggle at the moment....unless you are a young person looking for a job, or a sick person hoping to be treated on the NHS. I agree...this is still a wonderful country, compared to other places in the world. That is why half of the world wants to come and live here, and we are becoming very overcrowded. I don't worry for myself.....I have had my three score and ten, although I am hoping for another twenty! I do worry about what this country will be like in twenty years time, when that flag of Islam could be flying over Downing St. I worry for my grandchildren, and what their lives will be like. The signs are there now that things could go badly wrong, but we have a spineless government that doesn't want to deal with the problem. I think we need to worry.
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Restorative

Power—Jehovah Is “Making All Things New”

A CHILD loses or breaks a beloved toy and lets out a plaintive cry. The sound is heartrending! Have you ever seen, though, how a child’s face lights up when a parent restores what was lost? To the parent, it may be a simple matter to find the toy or even to fix it. But the child is all smiles and full of wonder. What seemed to be gone forever has been restored!

2

Jehovah, the ultimate Parent, has the power to restore what his earthly children may view as hopelessly lost. Of course, we do not mean mere toys. In these “critical times hard to deal with,” we have to face losses that are far more serious. (2 Timothy 3:1-5) Much of what people hold dear seems ever at risk—home, possessions, employment, even health. We may also feel dismayed when we contemplate the destruction of the environment and the resulting loss, by extinction, of many species of living things. However, nothing hits us as hard as the death of someone we love. The feelings of loss and powerlessness can be overwhelming.—2 Samuel 18:33.

3

How comforting, then, to learn about Jehovah’s restorative power! As we will see, there is an amazing scope to what God can and will restore to his earthly children. In fact, the Bible shows that Jehovah purposes the “restoration of all things.” (Acts 3:21) To accomplish this, Jehovah will use the Messianic Kingdom, ruled by his Son, Jesus Christ. The evidence shows that this Kingdom began ruling in heaven in 1914. (Matthew 24:3-14) What will be restored? Let us consider some of Jehovah’s grand acts of restoration. One of these we can already see and experience. Others will occur on a large scale in the future.

The

Restoration of Pure Worship

4

One thing that Jehovah has already restored is pure worship. In order to grasp what this means, let us briefly examine the history of the kingdom of Judah. Doing so will give us thrilling insight into Jehovah’s restorative power at work.—Romans 15:4.

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Just imagine how faithful Jews felt in 607 B.C.E. when Jerusalem was destroyed. Their beloved city was shattered, its walls torn down. Worse still, the glorious temple that Solomon had built, the one center for pure worship of Jehovah in all the earth, was left in ruins. (Psalm 79:1) The survivors were taken into exile in Babylon, leaving their homeland a desolate haunt of wild animals. (Jeremiah 9:11) From a human standpoint, all seemed lost. (Psalm 137:1) But Jehovah, who had long foretold this destruction, provided hope that a time of restoration lay ahead.

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In fact, restoration was a recurring theme in the writings of the Hebrew prophets. Through them, Jehovah promised a land restored and repopulated, fertile, protected from wild beasts and enemy attack. He described their restored land as a veritable paradise! (Isaiah 65:25; Ezekiel 34:25; 36:35) Above all, pure worship would be reestablished, and the temple would be rebuilt. (Micah 4:1-5) These prophecies gave the exiled Jews hope, helping them to endure their 70-year captivity in Babylon.

7

At last, the time of restoration came. Freed from Babylon, the Jews returned to Jerusalem and rebuilt Jehovah’s temple there. (Ezra 1:1, 2) As long as they adhered to pure worship, Jehovah blessed them and made their land fertile and prosperous. He protected them from enemies and from the wild beasts that had overrun their land for decades. How they must have rejoiced in Jehovah’s restorative power! But those events represented only an initial, limited fulfillment of the restoration prophecies. A greater fulfillment was to come “in the final part of the days,” our own time, when the long-promised Heir of King David would be enthroned.—Isaiah 2:2-4; 9:6, 7.

8

Shortly after Jesus was enthroned in the heavenly Kingdom in 1914, he addressed the spiritual needs of God’s faithful people on earth. Just as the Persian conqueror Cyrus freed a remnant of Jews from Babylon in 537 B.C.E., Jesus freed a remnant of spiritual Jews—his own footstep followers—from the influence of a modern-day Babylon, the world empire of false religion. (Romans 2:29; Revelation 18:1-5) From 1919 onward, pure worship has been restored to its proper place in the lives of genuine Christians. (Malachi 3:1-5) Ever since then, Jehovah’s people have worshiped him in his spiritual temple—God’s arrangement for pure worship. Why is this important to us today?

Spiritual

Restoration—Why It Matters

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Consider the historical perspective. Christians back in the first century enjoyed many spiritual blessings. But Jesus and the apostles foretold that true worship would be corrupted and lost. (Matthew 13:24-30; Acts 20:29, 30) After the apostolic age, Christendom arose. Her clergymen adopted pagan teachings and practices. They also made approach to God all but impossible, painting him as an incomprehensible Trinity and teaching people to confess to priests and to pray to Mary and various “saints” instead of to Jehovah. Now, after many centuries of such corruption, what has Jehovah done? In the midst of today’s world—a world that is choked with religious falsehood and befouled with ungodly practices—he has stepped in and restored pure worship! Without exaggerating, we can say that this restoration is one of the most important developments in modern times.

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True Christians today therefore enjoy a spiritual paradise. What does this paradise involve? Primarily, two elements. The first is the pure worship of the true God, Jehovah. He has blessed us with a way of worship that is free of lies and distortions. He has blessed us with spiritual food. This enables us to learn about our heavenly Father, to please him, and to draw close to him. (John 4:24) The second aspect of the spiritual paradise involves people. As Isaiah foretold, “in the final part of the days,” Jehovah has taught his worshipers the ways of peace. He has abolished warfare among us. Despite our imperfections, he helps us to put on “the new personality.” He blesses our efforts with his holy spirit, which produces beautiful fruitage in us. (Ephesians 4:22-24; Galatians 5:22, 23) When you work in harmony with God’s spirit, you are truly part of the spiritual paradise.

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Jehovah has gathered into this spiritual paradise the type of people that he loves—those who love him, who love peace, and who are “conscious of their spiritual need.” (Matthew 5:3) Such are the people who will be privileged to witness an even more spectacular restoration—that of mankind and of the entire earth.

“Look!

I Am Making All Things New”

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Many of the restoration prophecies call for more than a spiritual restoration. Isaiah, for example, wrote of a time when the sick, the lame, the blind, and the deaf would be healed and even death itself would be swallowed up forever. (Isaiah 25:8; 35:1-7) Such promises did not see a literal fulfillment in ancient Israel. And while we have seen a spiritual fulfillment of these promises in our day, there is every reason to believe that in the future, there will be a literal, full-scale fulfillment. How do we know that?

13

Back in Eden, Jehovah made clear his purpose for the earth: It was to be inhabited by a happy, healthy, united family of mankind. Man and woman were to care for the earth and all of its creatures, to turn the entire planet into a paradise. (Genesis 1:28) That is a far cry from the present state of affairs. Rest assured, though, that Jehovah’s purposes are never thwarted. (Isaiah 55:10, 11) Jesus, as the Messianic King appointed by Jehovah, will bring about this global Paradise.—Luke 23:43.

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Imagine seeing the whole earth turned into Paradise! Jehovah says of that time: “Look! I am making all things new.” (Revelation 21:5) Consider what that will mean. When Jehovah has finished wielding his destructive power against this wicked old system, there will remain “new heavens and a new earth.” This means that a new government will reign from heaven over a new earthly society composed of those who love Jehovah and who do his will. (2 Peter 3:13) Satan, along with his demons, will be put out of commission. (Revelation 20:3) For the first time in thousands of years, mankind will be free of that corrupt, hateful, negative influence. The sense of relief will no doubt be overwhelming.

15

At last, we will be able to take care of this beautiful planet as we were originally meant to do. The earth has natural restorative powers. Polluted lakes and rivers can cleanse themselves if the source of the pollution is eliminated; battle-scarred landscapes can heal if the wars cease. What a pleasure it will be to work in harmony with the earth, helping to turn it into a gardenlike park, a global Eden of endless variety! Instead of wantonly wiping out animal and plant species, man will be at peace with all creation on earth. Even children will have nothing to fear from wild animals.—Isaiah 9:6, 7; 11:1-9.

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We will also experience restoration on a personal level. After Armageddon, the survivors will see miraculous healings on a global scale. As he did while on earth, Jesus will use his God-given power to restore sight to the blind, hearing to the deaf, soundness of body to the lame and infirm. (Matthew 15:30) The aged will delight in renewed youthful strength, health, and vigor. (Job 33:25) Wrinkles will vanish, limbs will straighten, and muscles will flex with renewed power. All of faithful mankind will sense that the effects of sin and imperfection are gradually diminishing, dropping away. How we will thank Jehovah God for his marvelous restorative power! Let us now focus on one especially heartwarming aspect of this thrilling time of restoration.

Restoring

Life to the Dead

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In the first century C.E., some religious leaders, called Sadducees, did not believe in the resurrection. Jesus reprimanded them with the words: “You are mistaken, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God.” (Matthew 22:29) Yes, the Scriptures reveal that Jehovah has such restorative power. How so?

18

Picture what happened in Elijah’s day. A widow was holding the limp body of her only child in her arms. The boy was dead. The prophet Elijah, who had been the widow’s guest for some time, must have been shocked. Earlier, he helped rescue this child from starvation. Elijah may well have grown attached to the little fellow. The mother was just heartbroken. This boy had been her only living reminder of her dead husband. She may have hoped that her son would care for her in her old age. Distraught, the widow feared that she was being punished for some past error. Elijah could not bear to see this tragedy thus compounded. He gently took the corpse from the mother’s bosom, carried it up to his room, and asked Jehovah God to restore the child’s soul, or life.—1 Kings 17:8-21.

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Elijah was not the first person to believe in the resurrection. Centuries earlier, Abraham believed that Jehovah has such restorative power—and for good reason. When Abraham was 100 years old and Sarah was 90, Jehovah restored their deadened reproductive powers, miraculously enabling Sarah to bear a son. (Genesis 17:17; 21:2, 3) Later, when the boy was fully grown, Jehovah asked Abraham to sacrifice his son. Abraham showed faith, reckoning that Jehovah could restore his beloved Isaac to life. (Hebrews 11:17-19) Such intense faith may explain why Abraham, before ascending the mountain to offer up his son, assured his servants that he and Isaac would return together.—Genesis 22:5.

20

Jehovah spared Isaac, so there was no need for a resurrection at that time. In Elijah’s case, however, the widow’s son was already dead—but not for long. Jehovah rewarded the prophet’s faith by resurrecting the child! Elijah then handed the boy over to his mother, with these unforgettable words: “See, your son is alive”!—1 Kings 17:22-24.

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Thus for the first time in the Bible record, we see Jehovah using his power to restore a human life. Later, Jehovah also empowered Elisha, Jesus, Paul, and Peter to restore the dead to life. Of course, those who were resurrected eventually died again. Nonetheless, such Bible accounts give us a wonderful preview of things to come.

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In Paradise, Jesus will fulfill his role as “the resurrection and the life.” (John 11:25) He will resurrect countless millions, giving them an opportunity to live forever in Paradise on earth. (John 5:28, 29) Imagine the reunions as beloved friends and relatives, long separated by death, embrace one another, quite beside themselves with joy! All mankind will praise Jehovah for his restorative power.

23

Jehovah has furnished a rock-solid guarantee that such hopes are secure. In the greatest of all demonstrations of his power, he resurrected his Son, Jesus, as a mighty spirit creature, making him second only to Jehovah. The resurrected Jesus appeared to hundreds of eyewitnesses. (1 Corinthians 15:5, 6) Even for skeptics, such evidence should be ample. Jehovah has the power to restore life.

24

Not only does Jehovah have the power to restore the dead but he also has the desire to do so. The faithful man Job was inspired to say that Jehovah actually yearns to bring back the dead. (Job 14:15) Are you not drawn to our God, who is eager to use his restorative power in such a loving way? Remember, though, that the resurrection is but one aspect of Jehovah’s great restoration work ahead. As you draw ever closer to him, always cherish the precious hope that you can be there to see Jehovah “making all things new.”—Revelation 21:5.

[Footnotes]

“The times of restoration of all things” began when the Messianic Kingdom was established with an heir of faithful King David on the throne. Jehovah had promised David that an heir of his would rule forever. (Psalm 89:35-37) But after Babylon destroyed Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E., no human descendant of David sat on God’s throne. Jesus, who was born on earth as an heir of David, became the long-promised King when he was enthroned in heaven.

For example, Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Micah, and Zephaniah all developed this theme.

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Message 58 of 625
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I'll invite comments to this:-

 

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/jehovahs-witness-elders-were-spiritually-7258297



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

Message 59 of 625
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And the people bowed and prayed

To the neon God they made.
 

Religion to a tee IMO.

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