Potholes?

[cee-dee]

Why are there so many?

I've had a look at a few and came to the conclusion that there were a couple of reasons.

1/ Lack of adhesion of the top layer to the layer underneath.

2/ Not enough depth to the top layer.

Now, years back, in dry weather they used to spray hot tar on the road, cover that with chippings and roll it with a steam-roller (or a heavy diesel powered roller). The rollers they use today seem small and light in comparison. Then came Tarmac.

Many years back, I remember the roads between villages where I lived being given their first ever layer of Tarmac (with a Barber Greene) and the layer was about two inches thick. I remember a bloke on it sticking something in the layer to check the thickness before it was rolled

Looking at the present layers of Tarmac around the potholes it isn't even an inch thick and also the aggregate seems pretty coarse.

Anyone on here know much about Tarmac and roads?

[**bustysbargains**]

Duplicate thread CD 🤔 May 16 ?

[cee-dee]

Might be the same subject but it's not the same post. After a Summer (?) of potholes, I thought someone would have something constructive to say. I don't see your post on the old one? More time on your hands now to look way back? 

[dark_castle1]

I suppose at one time up here in Scotland they might have been potholes but now they more closely resemble mineshafts and nothing gets done about any of them.

[theelench]

The problem is, it's a quick-fix and dumping a blob of tarmac in the hole and rolling it flat doesn't work for very long.  At school we were taught that you can't compress water  --  try doing it and it will find a way out rather than be compressed.

It doesn't matter how much they roll the top of the blob of tarmac, there will almost always be some small flaw that lets in some water.  When traffic drives over the patch, the water is forced out, doing more damage as it goes.  So more water gets in, causes more damage and on and on until the patch falls out or breaks up.

That's why the liquid tar you remember worked better, it ran into holes and crevices, acting as a sealant and keeping out water.

I remember when they used to fill in holes in the road they would go around the edges with a pot of hot liquid tar before putting the tarmac in.  You don't see that anymore.

[cee-dee]

Eighteen months ago there was a big, deep pothole on the road leading up here. They eventually dug it all out and did it properly and used tar before putting tarmac in. It had fine aggregate and it's still there in pristine condition.

As I remember it..... in the earlier days of laying tarmac, didn't the Barber Greene have flames, heating/drying the surface just before the new tarmac was laid?

[theelench]

Now you mention it, I do have a vague childhood memory of the flames under a canopy at the front  --  a bit like a mobile gas cooker grill.

The thread prompted me to take a bit more notice of all the patches on the roads round here while I was driving around working.  Most have signs of deterioration around the edges.  With winter coming and with it rain, let alone ice, and they will all need re-doing in the Spring. 

[upthecreekyetagain]

One thing I do remember, and no longer seems to be the case, was road and pavement surfaces melting when the weather was hot.

Even during the recent very high temperatures there was no sign of that happening around our way.

[cee-dee]

I wonder if that's due to much more and coarser aggregate and less tar?

[upthecreekyetagain]

I would have thought that the larger the size of aggregate then the bigger the gaps that have to be filled with bitumen or whatever it is they use.

i do know that 40 years or so ago I’d regularly have to buy tar remover to remove all the tar spots on the car - I can’t remember the last time I bought any.

A different topic really but again looking back I remember driving out on a sunny day and the windscreen would be absolutely plastered with squashed bugs - hardly a one if you go out for a drive now.

[cee-dee]

That may be so but I think there's just not enough tar meaning that there ARE gaps allowing water ingress and in Winter the frozen water causing frost damage.

The lack of squashed bugs may be due to better aerodynamics?

[theelench]

The lack of bugs on windscreens might be down to aerodynamics but here in the S.E there has been a massive decline in many types of insects, most noticeably the flying types.

I've been self-employed gardening since '91.  Back then mowing a lawn had to be done at a slow walk, to allow the bees to move off daisies etc.  Often several several different types on one lawn.  Now all I see is an occasional Buff Tail and rare to see a Honey Bee.  Any rose bed had a swarm of hover flies, again several different types, not any more.  Buddleia had any number of butterflies and most that were once just less common, I haven't seen for years.  This year most of what I have seen have been foreign migrants, Painted Ladies and Hummingbird Hawks with a few native Whites and Red Admirals.

Virtually no Ladybirds and all of what I have seen have been the recently arrived Asian type.  It's become so bad that I'm sure that the number of spiders is declining.  If I come across a beetle or any of the other nameless things that used to commonly live in borders and beds it's something to note.  Even Wasps and Houseflies seem to have mostly disappeared.

The only insects I see in any numbers now are ants, aphids and woodlice.  The only insect I can think of that seems to be increasing are Green Crickets and I put that down to the rapid decline in smaller birds that used to forage in tree and shrub foliage.

[fallen-archie]

I agree with all of the above, it would appear to be part of a rapid decline in wildlife which has been exacerbated by the human intrusions on their space, the use of pesticides and breaking of the nature’s chain.
Potholes are a direct product of austerity, local authorities have deliberately reduced budgets in favour of their perceived priorities, we have a machine that goes around here filling in the holes from a type of giant spray gun which is fine for a few weeks but soon starts to dissipate and the hole returns. Many of the roads around where I live are typical country roads built for horse and carts and latterly strengthened and metalled to accommodate motor vehicles, however a combination of upscaled farm machinery and sat nav sending HGVs around the backwaters to avoid traffic issues elsewhere mean that the roads are not fit for purpose. There is little that can be done to protect the surface short of heavily imposed speed and weight limits! Also I have today travelled up the M6 and the roadworks are set to continue for at least another 34 months and yet there is no urgency about the workers who still lean very British Like upon there shovels or are in a van consuming coffee! I would love to know why it takes so long to address upgrading projects and why there is always machinery standing idle. We need more efficient ways on managing our roads and transport network but gawd knows where to start!