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Message 1 of 99
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I don't think we'll be doing much discussing.

 

We've been over the sceintific reasoning and those with Faith still believe what they believe (or hope is true) so we've two entrenched positions and ne'er the twain shall meet.



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

Message 2 of 99
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This topic was inspired by watching the late Christopher Hitchens on youtube today, whether you like him or not, his incredible intellect and attention to detail is quite something.

Message 3 of 99
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OK, I'll discuss.  I haven't watched Christopher Hitchens.  As you can see by my signature I am a practising Christian - a Methodist who "found" God after a near nervous breakdown in 2003.  I don't even know - maybe I was in the process of having one.  I just kept breaking down all the time and became hyper emotional for absolutely no reason but T.G. that's all in the past.  Since my "conversion" my life has never been the same.  To me, my Saviour is as alive to me as you are.  He is in my heart 24/365 (366th - leap year? I rebel on that day! Smiley Very Happy).

 

One of my great loves has been, and still is, astronomy.  I love watching programmes on the universe, and also about ouw own planet.  The universe is a truly massive expanse.  Scientists/astronomers think they have discovered a star on the very edge of the universe - a distance of 14 BILLION light years.  To put it into it's right perspective, if you could travel at the speed of light - 187,000 miles per second, it would take you 14,000,000,000 years to get there!  And what lies beyond?  That is why I personally believe in God.  


Got to go to the shops - more to follow.

Message 4 of 99
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crucified smiley photo image080-10.gif

 

 

 

(With apologies to Fred).

 

 

(And now something for Fred).

 

 

 

Mister EMB






Message 5 of 99
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A friend of mine, who lives in an area which is labour heartland, says you could stick a red Rosette on a Pig and put it up as a labour candidate.........and it would get elected. With that kind of entrenched, brainwashed attitude, it's a waste of time talking or debating any kind of reasoned argument...........about any Party.

Message 6 of 99
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I probably posted my previous, slightly out of context in relation to this particular topic; however, it's ironic that it can be applied to religion also.

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OK I'm back from the shops.  Follow on from my earlier thread.

 

There is absolutely reason for science/geology or whatever one's chosen subject not to work hand in hand.  Some of the world's most eminent scientists have been firm believers in God and personally I cannot see anything hypocritical in that.  The sheer size of the universe is something that is way, way beyond my comprehension.  The more I look into it, the more I realise just how small and insignificant  I am in relation to the universe.  In the book of Genesis concerning the story of creation God makes  no reference to the creation of other worlds - only that  "...He made the stars also..."  A star is a sun with it's own set of planets.  There is no earthly reason why He has not created tens of thousands of other lifeforms on other planets.  We are at the very earliest stage of space exploration.  We haven't even explored our own constellation yet, without worrying about life further a field.  It is a fascinating subject.

On the subject of the Creation, the Bible tells us that He created it in six days - on the seventh He did rest  -and rightly so!Smiley LOL .  There again, I don't see why this should be such a stumbling block to so many people.  What is a day?  How long does a day last?  As the words of the hymn O God our hope in ages past  go a thousand year within they sight is just an evening gone,  Even man with all his clever science hasn't got this one right, that's why we have a leap year every four years to round things up.  As each new discovery is made, it goes only to reinforce my personal beliefs that there MUST be a controlling force out there keeping everything perfectly in balance we call this force God for want of a better word.  Scientists the world over are merely DIAGNOSING what God has given us.  Just our own small little world so too finely balanced to have "just happened" by chance.  Do you realise if the world was put out of orbit by just ten miles from it's present position, we'd fry or freeze if it went the other way.

In conclusion, I'm not worried whether there is life on other planets or not.  I just thank Him from the bottom of my humble heart for what He has done for me.  If God made the universe and us, He is within all of us every second of the day.  

Message 8 of 99
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No apologies necessary Smiley Happy

I never watched The Life of Brian, but I am well versed on Monty Python & Co.  You can mock anything you like.  As I've said to people in the past, will you still mock on the day of Judgement?  Brave man if you do.  I profess my faith in Jesus Christ, and yet on the day I meet Him I will be prostrate with terror.  I used to watch John Cleese & Friends sometimes.  

Concerning the Universe Song, I think it is brilliant as a very rough guide to the size of the universe.  A few of the mathematics don't tally, but I feel it have been very cleverly put together.  If you Google it - the Universal Song, it tells you where the dimensions are slightly askew but there again it's not meant to be taken that seriously.

Message 9 of 99
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Who wrote the words of Genesis? = MAN.

 

So where did the words come from? You say God. So who was this Man to whom God gave those words?

 

It's a well proven scentific fact that Man existed LONG before he discovered how to write so how would the words have been preserved uncorrupted and intact by simply being handed down by word of mouth?

 

Also, explain how our World existed long before Man arrived to "receive" those words?

 

If God created the Earth and all on it, explain how Man survived the Snowball Earth period over 650 million years ago plus the previous one over 2 billion years ago?

 

Will you be saying that God created Man and the World as we know it complete with all the ancient layered rocks some if which God loaded with fossils?

 

That some of those layered rocks took billions of years to form, others hundreds of millions of years and the fossils within are of creatures which existed here hundreds of millions of years before Man appeared is all a nonsense is it?



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

Message 10 of 99
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On the one hand, you have science, duty bound to provide concrete proof, to dot every i and cross every t ; in order to establish / verify its credibility. On the other, religion, just the word of Man to Man; passed down over a mere 2,000 + years, with no proof and no credibility.........I guess that's why it's called BLIND faith.

 

In the land of the blind, the one Eyed Man is King !

Message 11 of 99
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Evoman and Cee-Dee

 

What rock would I choose?  A rock you can hold in your han which one day will erode to nothing and can be crushed with a bit of effort?

 

Or would it be a rock on which untold millions place their faith?  Yes, Evo - a faith.  A faith that will outlast every other faith in the world.  A rock on which the mason rejected and yet turned out to be the corner stone of a faith which will last forever.  I know which one I would chose.

 

I look on myself as a winner - heads or tails, I can't lose.  You want to read something?  Read the book of Revelations where it clearly state while other faiths live and die, on the Second Coming those who turn to the true rock will be as countless as the grains of sand on a beach.

 

Why am I a winner?  Because as a Christian I know that my redeemer lives, and that when I am called before my Father in Heaven to make an account of myself there will be one person and one person only who will intercede on my behalf - my personal guide and Saviour Jesus Christ, somebody who loved me so much, He died for me, even though I didn't know him.  All your fanciful science data will carry no weight.  

 

And if two-thirds of the world has been conned, and fallen for some gigantic fairy story and there's nothing there?  I'm STILL A WINNER!  because since falling for the biggest fairy tale in the world, I have never been happier in life - or death.

Who'd I put my faith in - a man sitting behind a bank of computers, or a King - with both eyes!  

 

How glad I am I don't know all the answers.

Message 12 of 99
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I will never critisize or condemn another for their beliefs, as long as those beliefs aren't at the expense of others. So whatever works for you, then that's fine..........it just doesn't work for me; but I will also make sure you are not personally harmed by what works for me.Smiley Happy

Message 13 of 99
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@evoman3957 wrote:

I will never critisize or condemn another for their beliefs, as long as those beliefs aren't at the expense of others. So whatever works for you, then that's fine..........it just doesn't work for me; but I will also make sure you are not personally harmed by what works for me.Smiley Happy


If we have something at our finger tips that would benifit others in a big way, what right have we to keep it to ourselves?

 

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Message 14 of 99
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The right that says others have the right not to be force fed anything, against their will. Those that do force feed others, then go from being the purveyors of good; to the purveyors of their own will............in other words......dictators.

Message 15 of 99
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@evoman3957 wrote:

The right that says others have the right not to be force fed anything, against their will. Those that do force feed others, then go from being the purveyors of good; to the purveyors of their own will............in other words......dictators.



You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

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Message 16 of 99
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Likewise, providing it is not a fanatical faith that encourages one to martyr themselves in the name of their God - 'nuff said).  Some of the bloodiest wars in history have been fought  "in the name of God" starting off with the annhilation of the Incas and the Spanish Inquisitio, so we are not above reproach ourselves in that area.  Then you have the Catholics and Protestants, and everything inbetween - Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons, Jehova Witnesses, Pentecostal - ye gods, the list goes on and on!  In Sittingbourne alone there are about eight different churches, all claiming to be "The right one".  So apart from the fanatical ones, which is the "right" way to worship God?  In my opinion - and it is only an opinion, it is surely down to the individual to find a method with which he/she is most at peace with his God, and worship Him accordingly.  After all, had it not been for Henry VIII, we'd ALL HAVE BEEN CATHOLICS!  Smiley LOL

Message 17 of 99
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Especially if it wasn't even thirsty in the first place, that would even make the trip to the watering hole a waste of time and energy.Smiley Happy

Message 18 of 99
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@evoman3957 wrote:

Especially if it wasn't even thirsty in the first place, that would even make the trip to the watering hole a waste of time and energy.Smiley Happy



mmmmm, yes lol, point taken where horses and drinking are concerned - literally that is, but in the case of JW's passing on their knowlege it is exactly what I  explained, that we are just sharing a wonderful thing with others, who then can make their own choices and decisions. How can anyone do that if they do not know what is on offer first, they cannot know if it is something worth even considering until it is passed on to them.  Yes you will always get some who don't want you to bother anyway but it is never forced.

 

We do go by the thought that situations can change and that perhaps someone who didn't want to be approached may have something change their way of thinking or needs and then be approachable.

 

 

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Message 19 of 99
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Not forced are you having a laugh ! You want to try telling that to the persistent JW that turn up on your doorstep uninvited & still will not give in even though you tell them you are not interested, educating is one thing forcing your unfounded opinions on a person who has told you quite clearly they are not interested is quite another!




**********Sam**********
Message 20 of 99
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