Cremation

[astrologica]

Cremation of the dead is generally accepted in this country these days, even by some Roman Catholics, who traditionally favoured burial. In the town where I live, the traditional cemetery is now closed as it is full. There is a new cemetary, but it isn't as large as the old one and I would imagine it will be full in a few decades. With all available land being grabbed for building houses, land for cemeteries is becoming increasingly scarce. Islam does not allow cremation of the dead, because they think it is disrespectful to the deceased. So what is going to happen in decades to come when there is no more room for cemeteries, but Muslims living, and dying, in this country want to be buried? Just a thought.

[upthecreekyetagain]

You don't have to be buried in a cemetry - it is just easier.  You can get approval from your council for a burial almost anywhere.

https://www.herefordshire.gov.uk/environmental-protection/funerals-and-cremations/burials-on-private...

[fallen-archie]

It's another downside of a burgeoning population, the modern crematorium, I have attended a few and the cremation becomes a cleverly timed procession, right now it's high season as the old succumb to the cold or just wear out. My parents were both cremated and their ashes placed where they wished, sadly there is no where to visit or pay ones respects. I like the idea of having ashes used during the planting of a tree and instead of cemeteries providing new woodland where nature can thrive and the air be cleaned. Yes that will do me.

[tommy.irene]

This is were my ashes are going..

[cee-dee]

Cremation doesn't render a body to ashes. There's still some solid bone left and that's pulverised to grind it down to an ash a bit like sand. Doesn't sound like a nice end does it?

A man produces 5 - 6 pounds of ash but how much is handed over to a family for scattering? Also, not all the ash you get is from the person you cremated, there's always some from previous cremations.

All in all, although cremation seems like a neat and tidy way of "disposal", it doesn't appear to be very nice?

As to burial grounds, when they're aged, more burials could be done in the spaces between those already there?

[wilsonhepple]

Recycled graves..had to happen sooner or later.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/8932251/recycled-graves-coming-soon-to-a-cemetery-near-you/

[cookiecookuk]

i think you can already re-use old graves if you can prove they have no living relatives

[auntieannie44]

As all my family have been cremated after death I automatically assumed the same would apply to me, however, upon discussing it with OH he went all bashful and said that he wouldn't like that and could he be buried instead!  So the long and short of it is off I went to the local authority to buy a lair, we chose a lovely old churchyard surrounding an ancient church circa 12th c.  It is a delightful place and every now and them I wander down there and say hi to the furure neighbours.  After reading the deeds of the lair I noticed that the local authority has the right to reclaim it if nothing had been done with the ground in 40 years.  This caused me a certain amount of consternation about how to keep a date like that to mind until it was pointed out to me quite gently that we are both past out three score years and ten and consequently would both probably be in residence by then.  It gave me a very funny feeling!!!

[astrologica]

Speaking as we are of cemeteries.....does anyone know if it is possible to obtain a gravestone that is belonging to one's ancestors?
My great-grandparents are buried in a local churchyard. The churchyard is kept relatively tidy, except around the edges, where some of the stones are leaning and deteriorating badly. My great-grandparent's stone is one of these. I visit often and take some flowers, but every time I go I notice that the stone is beginning to deteriorate more and more. It is such a shame to see it and I would love to rescue it and keep it in my garden. I would imagine that I would have to replace the stone with some sort of marker to show where they are buried. Has anyone heard of this being done before?

[auntieannie44]

I would speak to the vicar of the church to start with, he might be willing to let you uplift it, always assuming the ground belongs to the church, otherwise it might be the local authority so you could try speaking to the Reg. of b.d & m.  I don't think as long as you could prove your relationship with the dec'd, as long as it is no longer on the grave but up against a wall, there could be many objections.  However there is none so queer as folk, and what seems reasionable to thee and me probably won't to them!

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@astrologica wrote:
Speaking as we are of cemeteries.....does anyone know if it is possible to obtain a gravestone that is belonging to one's ancestors?
My great-grandparents are buried in a local churchyard. The churchyard is kept relatively tidy, except around the edges, where some of the stones are leaning and deteriorating badly. My great-grandparent's stone is one of these. I visit often and take some flowers, but every time I go I notice that the stone is beginning to deteriorate more and more. It is such a shame to see it and I would love to rescue it and keep it in my garden. I would imagine that I would have to replace the stone with some sort of marker to show where they are buried. Has anyone heard of this being done before?

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[malacandran]

A case can be made, that our dead bodies should not be "cremated" -  ie burned . For these reasons:

1 . It's unnatural.  What other species deliberately burns its own corpses?  You will find no precedent in Nature for this peculiar act.

2.  Burning the corpse, releases Carbon Dioxide into the Earth's atmosphere.  This contributes to Global Warming (as does the heat of the crematorium furnace)

3.  The burning dissipates into the air,  life-essential chemical elements, such as Phosphorus. 

So cremation should be deplored.  It's extremely un-Green.  It  damages the health of the Earth's biosphere.

The biosphere will benefit much more, if human corpses are buried in the ground.

The ground will then gain nourishment from the decaying  corpses. As the corpses rot, they will supply the soil with vital nutriments.

Thus enabling new organisms - worms, insects, and wheat, to sprout.  And so feed future generations.

This all sounds very disgusting!  But it's Natures's way, apparently. Until we can find a chemical substitute.

[cee-dee]

Many other species EAT the corpses of the dead so are you proposing we do that as "it's natural"?

Burying a corpse 6 feet down ain't gonna yeild much nourishment to the ground unless some deep-rooting trees are planted there?

[ginap.123]

Registrars of BD&M would know nothing about the regulations regarding headstones (I know as I am one) more likely to be your local authorities Cemetries department

[astrologica]

Thank you Gina!😊

[5129frederick]

My late father was cremated and wanted his ashes scattered on the water near Beachyhead Lighthouse three miles from Eastbourne, East Sussex.  He opted for a cremation citing if it were a burial it would cause too many rows.  How right he was!  So easy, but never done, to spite me because I'd asked him to do the decent thing.  I was to be joint executor in name only.  Within three weeks I knew what I was up against.  That is why I paid for, out of my own pocket a seat, to be erected at the start of the South Downs Way for the benefit of any traveller who wants to sit on the cliffs, looking out to sea.  He got the best of all three worlds - his beloved Eastbourne to the left, right on the cliff looking out to sea, and the hills he loved so much to the right.  

Archie, you don't need somewhere specific to go to remember those you loved because the words I chose on the bench sums it up perfectly: "Alive in our hearts forever."  But the beauty of it is neither my joint executor, (whom I totally disown), his wife, nor any member of his family will ever know about it.   When I am called before God to make an account of myself I will have much to answer for, but with regards the non-scattering of my father's ashes, I will stand before God with a VERY clear conscience!   Expungements in my memoirs and family tree at the back of my book have been very much intentional!

[5129frederick]

I told my father about that and he was very happy about it.  Three parts of your body will not break down regardless of how long your body has been in the furnace  - your skull, your teeth and your pelvis, which are then removed and put into a rotor with heavy weights until all that remains is a fine powder, so what your loved ones then get is the real you - no charcoal or any dross.  I was told the ashes are pink in colour, but I never saw them.  I was betrayed by somebody who refused to scatter them in order to spite me, though as I said in an earlier post, my conscience is clear.

[bankhaunter]

My ex did not want to be cremated until she realised that if she was buried in the village cemetery she might end up next to someone she didn't like and so changed her mind. 

My sister wanted her ashes to be scattered to the four winds, it was a very blustery day when they were scattered so she got her wish.

[malacandran]

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@cee-dee wrote:

Many other species EAT the corpses of the dead so are you proposing we do that as "it's natural"?

Burying a corpse 6 feet down ain't gonna yeild much nourishment to the ground unless some deep-rooting trees are planted there?

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Cee-dee, you make good points, as always in your posts..

If I may follow up two of your points:

1. You're right,  that other species eat the corpses of the dead.  We humans do it daily.  We eat dead chickens, pigs, and cows (but not dead horses, unless we're French).  That's very natural, and part of Nature

However -  we humans don't consume our own corpses. Though from a Green point of view, it seems we ought to.  Instead, we bury them.

2. This leads on to your second point - about burying our corpses 6 feet down.  As you rightly suggest, this depth may supply nourishment to deep-rooted trees.

 But such trees don't really feature much in our dietary needs, which are more concerned with plants such as wheat and corn.

These don't have roots which go down as much as 6 feet -  their roots are shorter, and could be adequately nourished by corpses buried at a shallower depth, say 1 or 2 feet.  Thus making farming easier, by reducing ploughing.

So, why the 6ft depth?  

[cee-dee]

Perhaps I ought to have made it clearer that I meant some species will eat the corpses of their dead (a few don't wait until they're dead)?

The depth at which bodies are buried seems to stem from a few factors like preventing the spread of any disease, to prevent animals digging them up, to prevent grave robbing and to prevent them surfacing in times of flooding?

[malacandran]

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@cee-dee wrote:

.... and to prevent them surfacing in times of flooding?

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Yes, there you may have hit the nail on the head.  It's to prevent the corpses surfacing.  Not necessarily only in times of flooding, but at any time.

We want to ensure that at all times - the dead bodies are safely stuffed down into the ground.  In case they come back to haunt us, with their ghosts.  These ghosts were believed in by our ancestors, who feared retribution from them.

I mean, we've all committed offences against people while they were alive, and got away with it.  But we don't want dead people coming back in posthumous spectral form,  to exact vengeance on us.

Therefore,  to guard against this danger, our ancestors devised the idea of burying dead people as deep as possible.

The maximum depth which could be achieved, using Stone Age technology, was probably about 6 feet.  Which is satisfactory, as it exceeds the length of most Neolithic human corpses. So even if the corpses erected from horizontal to vertical, they would not break surface,  and get out to haunt us.