Brexit

[guitarsandwoods]

Hello everyone,

I searched the forums about this and did not find anything, and I believe it is an interesting subject to dscuss, as the referendum approaches.

I know it can be a touchy subject, but I wonder what your thoughts about it? Will it change in any way the relationship with the European Union? Can this subject harm or benefit your business?

Disclaimer: I am not interested in anything political side of the issue, only the economic side.

Thank you.

[bristolsoapmaker]

People fought long and hard and died in those wars for peace, they was the catalyst for helping to *establish* the EU...

And I am not insulted at all that my grandparents fought for the rights I have today and helped establish a majority of peace throughout the region.

What I do get insulted by is people disrespecting their memory by comments like "I should be ashamed by what they helped establish."

The Commonwealth is a dying concept... and as more and more members leave, I think we can consider that a lost cause. The legacy of Britain's colonialism hasn't really been that great for the people it affected and is said to have caused many of the current day problems.

[Anonymous]

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@bristolsoapmaker wrote:

I can tell you where the money goes: secret underground bases, alien technology, and tin-foil hats. lol 😉

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They should be recouping some of it them because I bought a tin hat  when I started answering on the boards.      

[sellsoldstough]

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@bristolsoapmaker wrote:

The EU will still trade with us, undoubtedly. But maybe not in as such a favourable way they do now, and I personally think it's naive to just assume that things would end up in our favour.

Who knows? In a few weeks we'll have an idea about whether or not our economy is going to spiral downwards for some time or not.

All any of us can do is to vote for what we think is best and hope we don't get it wrong.

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That's about the position as I see it too. Except that I'm not going to worry about getting it "wrong."

The more authority with which the experts claim to speak, the less we should trust them. Might as well toss a coin to decide. And it may be that the question, in or out, is actually irrelevant. One way or the other we will still be here on the 24th June 2016. And on the 24th June 2026, I'll bet no-one will be able honestly to say with any certainty that the result of this vote was beneficial or detrimental to himself, his family or to the whole country or to Europe as a whole. I'll bet we'll be in pretty much the same economic and ecological hole we're in now; always the same mess, just the flies change.

[terry6082]

There are plenty of problems and it still feels like the uk is short of money. But GDP was 2.1% higher in the first quarter of 2016 compared with the same quarter a year ago. I think that's better than many countries. 

[sellsoldstough]

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@terry6082 wrote:

There are plenty of problems and it still feels like the uk is short of money. But GDP was 2.1% higher in the first quarter of 2016 compared with the same quarter a year ago. I think that's better than many countries. 

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But how is that linked with any particular side of this debate?

[terry6082]

I was suggesting that the 'economic hole' mentioned in the post above wasn't too bad, given the rise in gdp. I favour staying in, partly because the economy is doing reasonably and a brexit might change that. 

[sellsoldstough]

My gut feeling is for remaining too but not because of any short term economic advantage for which there is little evidence but rather because I would like to see Europe remain united in the struggle to perpetuate peace.

[52t-bird]

My question is not what will happen if we leave as i would like us to, but more what will happen if we stay?

Greece ,Italy and Spain are in economic meltdown and will sooner rather than later need to be bailed out or will be bankrupt.Why is no one discussing this and the potential cost to us?

EU unemployment is MASSIVE and this is whilst we are all in and supporting each other. This will end in tears as the young will all head here as with 40%+ unemployment in the EU why wouldnt they?

Turkey is currently leading the EU by the nose holding the EU to ransome over agreeing to take back SOME of the refugees swamping Europe but at the price of freedom of movement for 80 million Turks? Really we are going to send 30,000 Syrians back but let in 1million Turks?? Who makes this stuff up?

My opinion is simple and two fold first take back control so if we make a **bleep** up running things it is our **bleep** up not some madness from an anonymous unelectated EU delegate.Second we MUST control our borders it is not racism it is survival. We are now the highest populated country in the EU per KM and it increasing by a factor of 330,00 per annum. That is a city the size of Cardiff(Pop 346k in 2016) every year! Unless you want your grandchildren taught in schools standing room only and never intend to see a doctor or get a job you cannot agree to this madness and you must vote out!

[lettie0261]

We would be leaving the EU NOT Europe.

[theelench]

I have to agree with you although I do think allowing some refugees in is a good idea.

For some reason it has become accepted that these displaced people are "the biggest refugee problem since WW2".  Comparing the two is misleading IMO.

Back then the huge movement of people was caused by displaced people returning to their homes after the war ended, so there was no net increase in Europes population.  This influx is made up of new population for which we don't have the infrastructure to deal with.

Back then the refugees were Europeans with largely the same culture as whatever country they ended up in or passed through.  These new arrivals have a completely different culture and outlook.

Both the above mean that back then the refugees were easily assimilated into society.  The refugees now will not be and if they arrive in large enough numbers will not need to integrate.

IMO this influx is more like the 5th century Roman empire.  They had been letting in small numbers of refugees for a century or more  and successfully integrating them, as we have done  They then let in a huge population of Goths, fleeing from invaders and war in their land.  They were then unable to deal with this huge influx in so short a time.   The land they had been promised to farm was unavailable, even feeding them became difficult.  In desperation the Goths moved out from their holding areas and began taking what they needed.

Coming back to the present.  Where is the work and housing etc. to come from for these people.  Europe has high unemployment already.   IMO the same thing could happen again.  Large numbers of unemployed, disaffected people in poverty stricken enclaves of non-European culture.  We will then have two cultures in Europe again.  The Goths eventually headed west, sacked Rome and brought down the Western Empire.  It could all happen again.

[hicburp]

[ruby*ryan]

I find it quite amusing that the thread (currently) under this one is entitled:

Scaremongering or what!

I have certainly seen much scaremongering/guesswork/balderdash/lies over the last few months. What on earth will fill the media after June 23 - I suppose they will go back to the ins and outs of the latest Essex/Chelsea/Geordie "star's" love life, and more in depth discussions on the most recent Kim Kardashian selfie.

[thomas_cossey]

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@theelench wrote:

I have to agree with you although I do think allowing some refugees in is a good idea.

For some reason it has become accepted that these displaced people are "the biggest refugee problem since WW2".  Comparing the two is misleading IMO.

Back then the huge movement of people was caused by displaced people returning to their homes after the war ended, so there was no net increase in Europes population.  This influx is made up of new population for which we don't have the infrastructure to deal with.

Back then the refugees were Europeans with largely the same culture as whatever country they ended up in or passed through.  These new arrivals have a completely different culture and outlook.

Both the above mean that back then the refugees were easily assimilated into society.  The refugees now will not be and if they arrive in large enough numbers will not need to integrate.

IMO this influx is more like the 5th century Roman empire.  They had been letting in small numbers of refugees for a century or more  and successfully integrating them, as we have done  They then let in a huge population of Goths, fleeing from invaders and war in their land.  They were then unable to deal with this huge influx in so short a time.   The land they had been promised to farm was unavailable, even feeding them became difficult.  In desperation the Goths moved out from their holding areas and began taking what they needed.

Coming back to the present.  Where is the work and housing etc. to come from for these people.  Europe has high unemployment already.   IMO the same thing could happen again.  Large numbers of unemployed, disaffected people in poverty stricken enclaves of non-European culture.  We will then have two cultures in Europe again.  The Goths eventually headed west, sacked Rome and brought down the Western Empire.  It could all happen again.

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Well said that man !

[hicburp]

I've travelled, worked (security) and lived all over Europe, and love the place.

The worst thing that has ever happened to Europe is The EU.

Totally corrupt and financially they are 'next door to useless'.

Greece, France, Italy, Spain, Germany... ALL Have finance problems.

Social problems everywhere - if you want to know how bad it is going to get,

just take a look at Sweden. And that is only the start of it.

Why anybody would want to stay in a club like this is beyond my understanding.

There are NO benefits to remaining in The EU.

I think every other country in the world is performing better than countrys in The EU.

Okay... maybe not Antartica. Jeez even Ethiopia is doing better than most European countries.

Take a look at Switzerland who declined to join....

[brandyknackers]

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@hicburp wrote:

I've travelled, worked (security) and lived all over Europe, and love the place.

The worst thing that has ever happened to Europe is The EU.

Totally corrupt and financially they are 'next door to useless'.

Greece, France, Italy, Spain, Germany... ALL Have finance problems.

Social problems everywhere - if you want to know how bad it is going to get,

just take a look at Sweden. And that is only the start of it.

Why anybody would want to stay in a club like this is beyond my understanding.

There are NO benefits to remaining in The EU.

I think every other country in the world is performing better than countrys in The EU.

Okay... maybe not Antartica. Jeez even Ethiopia is doing better than most European countries.

Take a look at Switzerland who declined to join....

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Except perhaps for failed politicians and their families. In which case, it's a wonderful safe haven with a guarenteed income

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[0125arwen]

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@terry6082 wrote:

I was suggesting that the 'economic hole' mentioned in the post above wasn't too bad, given the rise in gdp. I favour staying in, partly because the economy is doing reasonably and a brexit might change that. 

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Staying in Will change that, for the worse.

[grandpa.and.his.attic]

With Farage now plunging UK politics to unplumbed depths and what with all of the fantasies and ever more ludicrous, preposterous and dangerous claims and counter-claims by all of the politicians who allegedly run/represent this country now and in the near-future, I begin to wonder if it’ll be worth remaining in the UK never mind in the EU?

Seems to be all about their own position / personalities / egos and only about their futures - not mine or yours.

No real facts from either side and only a ‘fiction section’ bigger than any library. They have set their standards / targets at an exceptionally low level - and have failed to achieve them.

The Monster Raving Looney Party (bless them) even seem sane at the moment.

For something so incredibly important, it’s all become really rather pathetic.

[hicburp]

here are a few facts for you:

Do You Have Children and Grand-Children.

Would you like to see the return of conscription ?

The EU Army ... (Somebody please tell me why a political party needs an army ?)

The EU Army command structure is already in place.

You can obtain a list of personnel from the EU Headquarter Office.

They have already started holding exercises with varying degrees of

involvement, and countries taking part. They were recently photographed

on Salisbury Plain, involved in manouvoures with British Forces.

Shortly after the Brexit Referendum, the EU will announce the formation of

an EU Army. They will say this is to provide security and assistance to any

EU member state. The Army will be made up of personnel from all the

current member states.

IF the UK Stay IN....

You may have noticed or heard that the British Army numbers have declined

over the past few years, with the government pushing through a lot of

redundancies.

There will be a LOT of resignations when the EU announce the formation of

the EU Army. It has been estimated that 75% of all serving personnel will hand

in their resignations. I have yet to find anyone who plans to stay in.

Current UK recruitment figures are terrible. And they are expected to be much much

lower when the UK Army is controlled by Brussels.

If this situation remains the same, then the EU will introduce conscription to those

states that cannot provide the necessary manpower.

So if you have children and grandchildren, this is something you may want to think about.

[al**bear]

I already live under a Government I didn't vote for or Do I support in any Way = The SNP

also the Whole of the UK is Governed by a Conservative Party, I didn't Vote for or support in any Way.

Also this is a Party, that two thirds of the People who Voted in the last UK Election, didn't Vote for

and You want Me to be bothered about another lot of European Politicos -

Who at least stand up for Workers rights

Never Mind the European Human Rights act (originally made up By the British Government after WWII) -- Yes it has it's faults

-------------------------------------------------

Vote Leave side -  bankrolled by the likes of Arron Banks, Peter Hargreaves  etc etc  and supported by Wetherspoons Boss Tim Martin

A group of Money hungry Capitalists who would demand every Employment  directive/right/law be rescinded on leaving

These people want the UK to be the Wests Singapore, Great for the Mega rich disastrous for everyone else

and I've not even mentioned the Tory angry brigade, Bill Cash, John Redwood, Peter Bone, Steve Baker etc etc

and of Course the ugly triad Boris, Gove & IDS - who in the space of a few months want us to believe are now champions & protectors of the Poor

I could never see Me voting for ANYTHING that had the backing of People like that

Then we have the Artur Daley of Politics, everybody's favourite ex Merchant Banker Our Nigel

NO THANKS

[evoman3957]

Perhaps you think this lot would be better then.......mentioned on the OTHER thread that nobody could find.

http://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/The-Round-Table/OK-in-or-out/m-p/4686331#M177558