Apple products..

[rednoise2001]

Any one else baffled by Apple products? Ive got an I pod (given as a gift) the instructions for putting music on it read as follows `plug the ipod into your pc and download music from the library`.

After many hours of frustration i`ve given up.

Got a Phillips mp3 from Argos and within 10 mins I had `dropped and dragged` all the music I needed.

Eventually my neice showed me how to download on to the ipod via itunes (she`s 10) and my head nearly expolded.

To be honest, I think its just me...

[cee-dee]

Your destructions are symptomatic of the current crop of geeks who assume everyone else is as geeky as them and spends all their time twiddling with all the latest gadgets.

Instructions should be written by people who know nothing and will assume everyone else knows as little as them. That way instructions would be in a simple, step-by-step format.

Like everything else, it's easy when you know how but well-nigh impossible when you don't.

[rednoise2001]

Exactly, also as a gift we where given an Apple tv box to be used with our ipad, after opening the wraping and finding the instructions even more vague, again I gave up. Even the remote control that came with it has no writing on it whatsoever

[al**bear]

Apple , used to be Hippy Geeks, and at the forefront of 'free/cheap' computing The Macintosh

But now its the great Mammon of consumers products

Over hyped

Over priced

& Over plugged , all over the Worlds media etc

Who have they just brought in to head their future

The Woman who 're-branded' Burberry , quite apt for Apple, all Image and little substance.

BTW - To use an I-Pod, with your PC, you need to download  - iTunes ( a massive piece of software full of spyware) from of course Apple onto your PC

[lhasa.two]

Apple products have never been "free" or "cheap" even in the early days of the Macintosh.

I notice that people who generally knock Apple have never owned or used any of their products.

They (computers) are 'idiot' proof and incredibly reliable and wonderful! Can you tell I'm a fan?! 

AFAIK, Tim Cook is still the CEO.

The ex Burberry CEO has been brought in to market the retail side of the Apple business.

[blackburn_stevie]

I use a Mac and that's not because I'm a geek. Far from it. (as anyone here will testify) I got a Mac after struggling to rid a high end Windows computer of a virus. On this Mac, I haven't seen any sign of a virus, malware or any such stuff in nearly 3 years.

[bankhaunter]

A few weeks back I saw the new 27" iMac and instantly fell in love, it is so beautiful.

I don't necessarily want to use one, just want it on my desk to be admired..

[ronnybabes]

---

@cee-dee wrote:

Your destructions are symptomatic of the current crop of geeks who assume everyone else is as geeky as them and spends all their time twiddling with all the latest gadgets.

Instructions should be written by people who know nothing and will assume everyone else knows as little as them. That way instructions would be in a simple, step-by-step format.

Like everything else, it's easy when you know how but well-nigh impossible when you don't.

---

Absolutely CD.

I get so frustrated when it is assumed one has some sort of basic knowledge.

I pride myself that I do, and then something which turns about to be relatively simple (once you know about it) stumps, and confounds me completely.

[**caution**opinion_ahead]

For a consumer like me, who has no desire to have all the latest products, Apple has one major fault.  They stop supporting their previous systems very quickly.  So, you might buy a £1000 laptop, thinking it will last you yonks.  And it would, in terms of the build quality, but, sadly, Apple will make sure it is effectively redundant very quickly.

To get maximum life, wait for the next issue of anything (pod, pad, whatever) and get it early. 

[lhasa.two]

---

@**caution**opinion_ahead wrote:

For a consumer like me, who has no desire to have all the latest products, Apple has one major fault.  They stop supporting their previous systems very quickly.  So, you might buy a £1000 laptop, thinking it will last you yonks.  And it would, in terms of the build quality, but, sadly, Apple will make sure it is effectively redundant very quickly.

To get maximum life, wait for the next issue of anything (pod, pad, whatever) and get it early. 

---

Beg to differ caution, Apple do not stop "supporting" their previous (computer) systems very quickly or make them redundant.

There's a difference between supporting and upgrading. They upgrade the version of their current operating system quite often but it's either free to users or minimal cost, around £75 I think, and they support anything that's gone before for several years. I bought my current MacBook in 2006... hardly new and yet it's functioning absolutely fine with OS "upgrades". I will be getting the new ipad air in the New Year though... I've used Macs since 1987 and I've had 4, all used professionally and for pleasure, never had one breakdown, except the cd player on this one has gone - a first.

You'll always get people who want the "latest",  but that doesn't mean Apple abandon us oldie users. 

[**caution**opinion_ahead]

I bought my MacBook in 2008 and it cannot be upgraded.  Apple only support their current OS and the one before.  I'm about 4 behind now.  Effectively, I am stumped.  I can't even transfer my itunes tracks onwards, cos my itunes format (which cannot be upgraded) is too far behind to be compatible with any hardware I buy now.

So, for me, my perfectly working 5-yr old Macbook is effectively obsolete for anything involving connecting to the internet.  Firefox kept their support going longest, but even they bowed out at the beginning of this yr.

[cee-dee]

I wonder if, before long they'll apply the same principle to cars?

Imagine the engine management system not working because it's "no longer supported" and cannot be upgraded so that the mechanics can't access the computerised checklist?

[blackburn_stevie]

Caution ...... May I ask if you have been on to the techie folk on the Mac forums?

They are a very helpful group of folk. Nothing to do with Apple per se but very knowledgable none the less.

Just in case, the forum that deals with Apple MacBooks is at ............

http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/apple-notebooks/

I ain't saying that they work miracles but you never know. It can't hurt to ask.

Cheers,

Steve.

[**caution**opinion_ahead]

Steve, thanks for the link. 

I have sought advice.   My machine would be capable of one upgrade (to Snow Leopard), but cannot go to Lion or Mountain Lion for technical reasons.  If I had purchased it 6 mths later, I would have been able to use Lion on it, but, sadly, I cannot.

I was just using my personal experience to back up my point ^^^^ that Apple stuff can date quickly.  For example, they are releasing iPad Air tomorrow and have dropped making iPad 4 (though 2 is still going).  Now, lots of places have iPad 4s in stock still, so you can buy them.  But I'd think getting an iPad Air would be better value, as it is the same price and likely to be supported until at least two newer iPad generations are in circulation, ie 2 yrs on current release rates.

I don't know if phones go out-of-date in this way, as I don't have one.

[blackburn_stevie]

Caution ....... Just as a matter of interest and bearing no relation to any other posts on this thread, what actual updates would cause any problems? I have a Mac Mini from mid 2010 and I have just installed the latest OS, Maverick, which took 5 hours to download. The good news was that it could be done overnight and it was completely free to folk that were already running Snow Leopard.

The only differences that I have found in the simple day-to-day stuff between using Tiger, Maverick and all of the Operating Systems inbetween is that each update to the OS contains most of the Apps that were found to work in the previous OS. The point being that the updates were already available as a download in the previous OS. Now, obviously there were other differences deep down inside but, when you get right down to it, what actual upgrades are needed? I'm talking about software here, not upgrades to the actual Mac itself like when a change was made from Power PC to Intel.

Cheers,

Steve.

[**caution**opinion_ahead]

Hi Steve. 

Well, I don't actually need upgrades, in that everything works perfectly for the things I want to do.  However, because my OS is no longer supported, I don't get patches for security issues, etc, and can't use an up-to-date version of FF, which, apparently, can create vulnerabilities.

In technical terms, my machine would be capable of running Snow Leopard, which I could buy on a disc for £30-40 or so and then install.  However, I still wouldn't get any updates as SL is no longer receiving support by Apple.  I might be able to get a newer version of FF using it, but for how long?  I think the money would be better put towards an iPad instead (which would do 90% of what I want to do), as I would always be playing catch-up on this laptop.

I will still use it for some things, eg flash games, cos I can't play those on an iPad.

[lost.parrot]

Caution.I take your point re support, but would add a couple of things

If your macbook is circa 2008 it should be core 2 duo, not core duo,( which was 32 bit based pentium m), and capable of running Lion assuming at least 2 gig memory and 4 gig HD space
Most from late 2006 onwards most were core2, and you can check in system profiler to confirm

Mountain Lion would not install directly without 3rd part support, but should with
Main problem was Apple dropped 32 bit support with ML and also didn't update older graphics chipset drivers
but if manufactured circa 2008, yours will be 64 bit and likely have nvida graphics chipset, which should make things easier re installing ML with 3rd party support

To be fair, browser support for older OS' is a matter for the software supplier, and for similar reasons to macs being subject to less malware ie namely the small numbers involved, they may not consider it worth spending resources supporting older OS. Thats largely a numbers game. As for vulnerabilities, you have an existing edge because of the relatively small numbers involved in terms of users, and to an extent software vendors have a tendency to over stress such things

You could ironically install windows 8, which I understand does support the older chipsets in question
It may be worth checking the spec in profiler against apples requirements for Lion

[**caution**opinion_ahead]

Hi Parrot.   Thank you for your input, some of which I understood!

I have been told by Apple themselves, and by a person who works independently but specialises in Mac stuff, that I could go as far as Snow Leopard, but not further.  I don't really fully understand why (the technical specs are so much double-dutch to me) ... but I have accepted their diagnosis.

I completely see it is a numbers thing.  I think the stats are less than 15% of Mac users are still on Leopard or earlier.  Now, clearly 15% of Windows users would be a huge number, but the same proportion of Mac users is a pretty small base, so I take their point that putting the money in is not viable.

I have been working on the "exisiing edge" principle since FF stopped support at the beginning of the yr.  I think any "risk" is indeed small.  I'm going to upgrade to an iPad in order to do certain things, but will keep my Macbook for others where, should a problem occur, the inconvenience would be minimal.