A different slant on extremism?

I can't recall this being mentioned before but with all this religious extremism coming from radicalised "followers" of one particular cult, I wondered how they're being funded and by whom?

 

Who pays for the weapons and ammunition plus all the peripherals? Where are they made, how do they get to those extremists? Who has enough money to literally throw in to such conflicts?

 

There are really unpleasant conflictss in the Middle East and Africa and I wondered if it was being financed from where it all began, further East? Has anyone else had similar thoughts?



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

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A different slant on extremism?

I listen to the news items but when it goes in to waffle mode, I mute the sound.

 

Yesterday Obama and Cameron were giving some sort of news "conference" and Sky news was showing it in full. I hopped it to the BBC news instead. The full coverage didn't warrant taking up the whole news, all that was needed was a report that it was taking place and any newsworthy items picking out of it later.

 

From my point of view, the two most pompous, arrogant, self opinionated political commentators who're full of their own importance are Adam Boulton and Nick Robinson.

 

As May approaches I'm dreading the politics dominating the news programmes because most of it will not be news and real news won't get a look in.



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

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A different slant on extremism?

I was going to ramble on about boko haram and nigeria as promised,but the topic has gone to news reporting vs bias propaganda and self boosting bigots .

Well imo caution  has the nit grit of it all in his/her divert attention to what is really going on in the world as far as actual terrorism is concerned and also how the reporting keeps the agenda ;;we must stop this '' and  ''we need  leaders'' like Cameron ,Obama ,Putin ? hahahahahahahaha ...sorry 🙂

Time I bowed out of this one as all has been covered I think ,.Well spotted caution.... and CD I agree wholeheartedly with time to rope them in...all of them.

(If only)

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A different slant on extremism?

Please continue.... it all hovers around the subject.

 

Speaking about today, 2015, as far as Christians go..... do you see what I'd call a "devout" Christian wearing anything which marks them out as being what they are? (A crucifix might mean that they are or it could just be a "fashion item"?) Do you see them demanding that hair should not be cut or women covered from head to foot?

 

Do you see Christians going about threatening to chop the heads off people or kidnapping women and girls? I think they've learned from the terrors of the past that such things are wrong but will the radical fanatics ever learn?

 

Going back to "The press".......... headlines now about "The Big Freeze"......... What big freeze? It's Winter, you expect frost and snow? We don't have Winters like we used to where roads were covered in snow for weeks on end and we expected a few feet of drifts. Many people had snow chains and used them but how many people would know where to get any from never mind how to put them on? Parts of the world where they get lots of ice and snow must be laughing their heads off (!!!??)) when they see such silly headlines as "The Big Freeze"? The press need a bit of re-education about cheap sensationlism?



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

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A different slant on extremism?

Would reply cd on nigera but seems thread lock on thread I post on,so rather than upset I shall go away...ps though ,fastest growing religion in India is Islam ,which you need to be a muslim to get on the train

bye ,enjoyed the debate though 🙂

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I don't understand your post. Which thread is locked because I can't see one?



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

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A different slant on extremism?


@cee-dee wrote:

Please continue.... it all hovers around the subject.

 

Speaking about today, 2015, as far as Christians go..... do you see what I'd call a "devout" Christian wearing anything which marks them out as being what they are? (A crucifix might mean that they are or it could just be a "fashion item"?) Do you see them demanding that hair should not be cut or women covered from head to foot?

 

Do you see Christians going about threatening to chop the heads off people or kidnapping women and girls? I think they've learned from the terrors of the past that such things are wrong but will the radical fanatics ever learn?

 

Going back to "The press".......... headlines now about "The Big Freeze"......... What big freeze? It's Winter, you expect frost and snow? We don't have Winters like we used to where roads were covered in snow for weeks on end and we expected a few feet of drifts. Many people had snow chains and used them but how many people would know where to get any from never mind how to put them on? Parts of the world where they get lots of ice and snow must be laughing their heads off (!!!??)) when they see such silly headlines as "The Big Freeze"? The press need a bit of re-education about cheap sensationlism?


................................http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/isis-throws-gay-men-off-tower-in-48-hours-of-publi...
......................................................................................................................................................................................................... .................Im a 76 year old Nutcase.. TOMMY LOVES YOU ALL. .. I'm a committed atheist.
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A different slant on extremism?

Last big freeze was 1963, today's media consider anything worthy of a grand title. Rubbish journalism driven by desperation to be watched, listened to or read.
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What about 1978?



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

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A different slant on extremism?


@cee-dee wrote:

Speaking about today, 2015, as far as Christians go..... do you see what I'd call a "devout" Christian wearing anything which marks them out as being what they are? (A crucifix might mean that they are or it could just be a "fashion item"?) Do you see them demanding that hair should not be cut or women covered from head to foot?

 

Do you see Christians going about threatening to chop the heads off people or kidnapping women and girls? I think they've learned from the terrors of the past that such things are wrong but will the radical fanatics ever learn?

 


Some drug cartels in South and Central America (highest murder rates in the world) operate under a supposed Christian ethos e.g. Knight Templars:

http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2079430,00.html

 

"Extremism" cuts various ways - and is often cumulative (e.g Catholic/Protestants in NI, Israelis/Palestinians). It's easy to dismiss it as a "religious" issue when more often than not there's a political ideology that underpins it.  The writing of Sayyid Qutb have more influence on "Islamists" than anything written in the Quran.

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A different slant on extremism?

I think those "knights templar" have little to do with religion and are more interested in outright thuggery than anything remotely connected to a Christian way of life.

 

As to Qutb, everything about him was inspired by the koran so you can't say (OK, I know you just did) that the radical extremists are more influenced by him than the koran.

 

Radical fanatics are well versed in the art of taking things out of context and exaggerating minor comments to magnify what they claim is the "real" meaning to reinforce their own twisted ideology.



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

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A different slant on extremism?


@**caution**opinion_ahead wrote:

I think the word "terror" should be dropped.  It implies victimhood of the majority of the population.  Of course, the media love it.  As do governments, to an extent (given it distracts from other things going on). 

 

Refer to any perpetrators as just plain murderers and you alter the emphasis.  Don't bother mentioning any religious affiliation either.  It only gives their organisations power.  Don't give any screen time to the attackers.  Don't air their crowing videos.  Don't even name them.  Take away the publicity.  Take away their feeling that they are part of something bigger and stronger.  Isolate and anonymise them.   Remove the idea that whole populations can be terrorised by a few mad fanatics.  Divert resources (media and government) to other issues.

 

Why doesn't this happen?  Other agendas are at play. 


http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/01/19/terrorism-islam-and-the-need-to-keep-the-western-world-in-f...

 

Is it really about keeping us safe, or is it about keeping us down?

 

Some have argued that the western military-industrial complex has a vested interest in providing the public with a state-sponsored bogeyman to fear. During the Cold War it was the USSR. Immediately after Soviet Communism (which must not be confused with socialism) collapsed, the west went to war with Saddam Hussein’s Iraq – a regime formerly supported by the USA. Since then we’ve had 911, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, 7/7, Libya, Syria and Islamic State. While this has been going on, the western media seem to be stirring up fear of Putin’s Russia.

 

Isn’t that only to be expected from a coalition of groups with vested psychological, moral and material interests in the continuous development and maintenance of high levels of weaponry, in preservation of colonial markets and in military-strategic conceptions of internal affairs*?

 

It seems clear that there is a system of control being exercised upon us here. You can see it for yourself, evidenced by the fact that we never seem to find ourselves clear of any threats; there’s always another one on the horizon and it’s always important for us to give up more of our civil liberties in order to fight it – and of course, we pay for all the weapons and ammunition used, with our taxes.

 

So, looking at this objectively, we should be asking ourselves: Who is the greater threat?

 

As far as the Islamic extremists are concerned, if we lived in a rational world there would be a strong argument for someone to go and speak to them (under a white flag or whatever it took to be heard) and point out a few important facts: The western military has enough firepower to turn the Middle East into a scorched crater if it wants to do so.

 

The reason it doesn’t is it needs you to be the equivalent of a pantomime villain, to be defeated at regular intervals on the evening news. The West will never defeat you completely, because you’re too useful for making a profit for the arms dealers and for keeping western citizens under control.

You are, therefore, nothing but toys. The only way to defeat this strategy is to disengage completely; stop the violence against the west that will never, ever succeed and find better solutions to your problems.

If we lived in a rational world, they would agree.

 

Wouldn’t you like to live in that world, instead of this?





We are many,They are few
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A different slant on extremism?

I think those "knights templar" have little to do with religion and are more interested in outright thuggery than anything remotely connected to a Christian way of life.

 

I agree. It's not so much a religious issue but their thuggery which underpins it.

 

As to Qutb, everything about him was inspired by the koran so you can't say (OK, I know you just did) that the radical extremists are more influenced by him than the koran.

 

I think you'll find Qutb's biggest inspiration was visiting the United States. It was from this he popularised the concept of jahiliyyah, hence why Wahhabis are vehemently "anti-Western" in terms of values. How many Ahmadiyya have committed acts of terrorism? Come to think of it, why have "we" and other "allies" pretty much bombed every Muslim-majority nation apart from one of the biggest sources of terrorism funding and extremist propaganda of the lot - The House of Saud.

 

Radical fanatics are well versed in the art of taking things out of context and exaggerating minor comments to magnify what they claim is the "real" meaning to reinforce their own twisted ideology.

 

Sometimes others do the recruitment job of "radical fanatics for them. They like to pump out the message "Westerners hate Muslims" and create an "us v them" narrative. So those who push out that narrative no doubt earn themselves a massive pat on the back from the likes of ISIS etc.  Britain First and Anjem Choudary's mob like nothing better than to give each other metaphorical mutal handjobs considering they both want the same thing - violent conflict between "the west" and "Islam".

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His inspiration was definitely reading the koran, his realisation of his belief (some people would call it that, I would call it reversion) was, as you say during his time in America.

 

What I read of his assessment of American women read more like twisted jealousy (almost lust?) and all that reads like a reason to demand that women are completely covered. It's almost saying that women mustn't show their attractive features at all because they're seductive and lead men in to temptation. From that, if I twist it like "they" twist things, it's saying that men can't control themselves?

 

Sooooo, from a Western stance, that means (if I twist it back) Western men are able to control themselves but "they" can't when faced with an attractive woman? Sounds like they're a dangerous lot if allowed to mix with Western women?



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

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His inspiration was definitely reading the koran, his realisation of his belief (some people would call it that, I would call it reversion) was, as you say during his time in America.

And his 'radicalisation' came from being persecuted, tortured and imprisoned.

 

What I read of his assessment of American women read more like twisted jealousy (almost lust?) and all that reads like a reason to demand that women are completely covered. It's almost saying that women mustn't show their attractive features at all because they're seductive and lead men in to temptation. From that, if I twist it like "they" twist things, it's saying that men can't control themselves?

Sooooo, from a Western stance, that means (if I twist it back) Western men are able to control themselves but "they" can't when faced with an attractive woman? Sounds like they're a dangerous lot if allowed to mix with Western women?

 

Or maybe the scenario of women being objectified and homogenised via the beauty myth and the rejection of it. In contemporary terms, to polarize the two extremes, on one hand there's botox, boob jobs, and beauty pageants for 7 year olds; on the other there's burquas and niqabs.

 

Female presenters on Fox News:

http://i.imgur.com/Qu6VOsT.jpg

   Prayer time for women in mecca:

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/12/12/1323697979959/Women-pray-in-Mec...
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His radicalisation came before imprisonment. He believed in strict sharia law, he was anti-semitic, he believed in offensive jihad.

 

Why was he imprisoned? For plotting to assasinate Nasser? Nice peaceful person eh?

 

The references to the American women and your comparision to the covered women smacks of sympathies towards that way of life.

 

He was wrong as are all those who promote a similar doctrine.



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

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His radicalisation came before imprisonment. He believed in strict sharia law, he was anti-semitic, he believed in offensive jihad.
You might want to do a bit more reading beyond the Haynes guide to Muslamic rayguns.
Why was he imprisoned? For plotting to assasinate Nasser? Nice peaceful person eh?
As above.
The references to the American women and your comparision to the covered women smacks of sympathies towards that way of life.
No, just pointing out how jahiliyyah is reactive to aspects of perceived "Western" culture, or more specifically the perceived superficial materialism of it. Just because someone has an idea of how a narrative ticks it doesn't mean they "sympathise" with it. It wouldn't be fair of me to accuse you of getting your kicks from ogling 7 year old girls at beauty pageants would it? Unless of course, you view girls & women as objects whose value is simply reduced to "attractive features".
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As I understand it, he was in America for a couple of years returning to Egypt in 1950.

 

He wasn't imprisoned until around 1954 for plotting to assassinate Nasser. Therefore, he was already in favour of offensive jihad to eliminate those who he disagreed with. Nice person. First he was a "friend" of Nasser, then he's plotting to kill him?

 

Up to a point, the law in the West allows a very wide range of unrestricted freedom. Those freedoms, although followed by some, are not followed by all in the same way that some people like peanut butter and others dislike it. It's a matter of choice. Just because some people might ogle females, most don't give them a passing judgemental glance either.



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

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A different slant on extremism?

 Cee-dee, I thought the object of this thread was to try and gain some sort of understanding as to how  "religious extremism" came from radicalised "followers" of one particular cult and how they are funded. So am I right in assuming this 'debate' has now been simply reduced as to whether Qutb was a "nice" person or not? LOL Ironically, by reducing this 'debate' to a dumbed-down superficial view of Islam (we'll ignore the numerous different denominations within it hey?) and its influential figures you're actually proving Qutb's theories right. And for the record he probably was a complete **bleep**. That doesn't mean to say he didn't have a point, or that his narrative has been significantly influential. And Nasser was plotting to stitch-up Qutb before the assassination plot. MI6 also wanted to take out Nasser, but that's beside the point.

 

It's very easy to criticise "other" cultures and/or religions for their "extremist" aspects - this can be either religious violence underpinned by politics (ISIS, Boko Haram) or cultural aspects (FGM, so-called honor crime), to which most would agree is abhorrent. However, looking at 'our' own culture it very easy to dismiss unsavoury aspects. For example, you don't tend to see many devout Muslims shoving pint glasses into each other's faces on a Friday night or filling up A&E departments as a result of alcohol. I certainly don't feel 'responsible' for this, do you? Nor do I think this behaviour is replicated by the majority of "Westerners". 

 

You mention "choice" but is it really that straightforward? Many youngsters today face a hellava lot of peer-pressure to conform to latest fashions, or obtain some other sort of narcissistic 'trophy' to prove their worth. And this is all whilst competing against the impossible of airbrushed role models. Is it any wonder there are so many self-esteem issues and eating disorders affecting people when socialised in such an environment?  I for one can't really blame those who try to reject such values, however any "sympathy" evaoporates when arriving at the other extreme of imposing political violence or abhorrent cultural practices to hammer home this 'rejection'.

 

 

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@joe_bloggs* wrote:

@**caution**opinion_ahead wrote:

I think the word "terror" should be dropped.  It implies victimhood of the majority of the population.  Of course, the media love it.  As do governments, to an extent (given it distracts from other things going on). 

 

Refer to any perpetrators as just plain murderers and you alter the emphasis.  Don't bother mentioning any religious affiliation either.  It only gives their organisations power.  Don't give any screen time to the attackers.  Don't air their crowing videos.  Don't even name them.  Take away the publicity.  Take away their feeling that they are part of something bigger and stronger.  Isolate and anonymise them.   Remove the idea that whole populations can be terrorised by a few mad fanatics.  Divert resources (media and government) to other issues.

 

Why doesn't this happen?  Other agendas are at play. 


http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/01/19/terrorism-islam-and-the-need-to-keep-the-western-world-in-f...

 

Is it really about keeping us safe, or is it about keeping us down?

 

Some have argued that the western military-industrial complex has a vested interest in providing the public with a state-sponsored bogeyman to fear. During the Cold War it was the USSR. Immediately after Soviet Communism (which must not be confused with socialism) collapsed, the west went to war with Saddam Hussein’s Iraq – a regime formerly supported by the USA. Since then we’ve had 911, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, 7/7, Libya, Syria and Islamic State. While this has been going on, the western media seem to be stirring up fear of Putin’s Russia.

 

Isn’t that only to be expected from a coalition of groups with vested psychological, moral and material interests in the continuous development and maintenance of high levels of weaponry, in preservation of colonial markets and in military-strategic conceptions of internal affairs*?

 

It seems clear that there is a system of control being exercised upon us here. You can see it for yourself, evidenced by the fact that we never seem to find ourselves clear of any threats; there’s always another one on the horizon and it’s always important for us to give up more of our civil liberties in order to fight it – and of course, we pay for all the weapons and ammunition used, with our taxes.

 

So, looking at this objectively, we should be asking ourselves: Who is the greater threat?

 

As far as the Islamic extremists are concerned, if we lived in a rational world there would be a strong argument for someone to go and speak to them (under a white flag or whatever it took to be heard) and point out a few important facts: The western military has enough firepower to turn the Middle East into a scorched crater if it wants to do so.

 

The reason it doesn’t is it needs you to be the equivalent of a pantomime villain, to be defeated at regular intervals on the evening news. The West will never defeat you completely, because you’re too useful for making a profit for the arms dealers and for keeping western citizens under control.

You are, therefore, nothing but toys. The only way to defeat this strategy is to disengage completely; stop the violence against the west that will never, ever succeed and find better solutions to your problems.

If we lived in a rational world, they would agree.

 

Wouldn’t you like to live in that world, instead of this?


I don't disagree with any of that.

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@joamur_gosof wrote:

 

Well imo caution  has the nit grit of it all in his/her divert attention to what is really going on in the world as far as actual terrorism is concerned and also how the reporting keeps the agenda ;;we must stop this '' and  ''we need  leaders'' like Cameron ,Obama ,Putin ? hahahahahahahaha ...sorry 🙂



Am female.glasses

 

 

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