Sellers Beware - Collection only listings danger. Any advice?

[oneofffinds]

I had 2 buyers for the same item in September when I reduced the price.  I sold to the first bidder to be fair.  The item was collection only stated clearly on the listing because it is antique and fragile glass.  I told him he could collect anytime.  He knew it was collection only.

After 44 days, he asked for a refund.  Because I had lost the other buyer and did not want to have to make a new listing, I told him he could still collect but I would not cancel the sale.  

Because he asked for a refund after 44 days, eBay automatically closed the case and that was that.  I never closed the case, I just said he could come get it.

Next thing I know he left me horrible feedback even though this is all because he couldn't be bothered to collect and changed his mind more than one month later. 

This brought my Seller Rating down from 100% positive to 66.67% positive ruining many years of a 100% track record.  eBay agreed to remove his negative feedback because if was unfair but will not restore my rating even though I did nothing wrong. The Customer Service person said he cannot change Ratings and also that I cannot escalate this problem. With a 66.67% rating, obviously I can never sell anything again. 

On top of that, he asked Paypal for a refund.  Because the item was Collection Only, I do not have a Tracking Number.  All the proof I have is on eBay in my Messages where I gave him collection details and how to contact me and the dates he bought and cancelled, and his messages saying he would come soon, but these are not files I can attach as evidence on Paypal's system. 

So a lousy Buyer who decided he can't be bothered to collect has wrecked my Seller profile and there is nothing I can do after hours of trying to get eBay to correct the problem.  

If anyone else has had a similar experience and was able to sort this out with eBay so their ratings were not affected, please will you advise. 

And for any sellers out there, be careful about Collection Only items as there is no protection for you if a Seller just changes their mind. 

There ought to be a policy that a Buyer has to collect within 30 days or something to protect Buyers and stop this kind of time-wasting person who then also can wreck your Profile even when you have done nothing wrong. 

[tsmgmd]

Thanks for replying.. At the end of the day although your buyer was apparently out of order in a way you were on the best side.. You had the item in your possession undamaged to relist.. But by disputing a refund it was plainly obvious what was going to happen.. 

As I said before sometimes you have to bite the bullet.. Refund the buyer, add them to your blocked bidder list, relist the item making sure you remove any mention of courier.. Make it quite clear the item can only be collected in person.. Courier collection is not available.. 

[oneofffinds]

Thanks again 4u! I have definitely learned the hard way. I only sell 3 or 4 items a year and this was my first bad experience. When I disputed the refund, I just thought he would have to come collect as originally agreed. I had builders here and roof leaks when he requested it and wanted to avoid the hassle of re-listing but little did I know.

I should have known he was going to be trouble when it took several reminders to get him to pay £15 for an item I was clearing cheap in the first place.
Definitely marking items For Collection Only from now on and also putting a time limit on collection so they can't leave me hanging indefinitely. Not sure whether eBay will honour a time limit but going to try that anyway.
Take care

[*guinevere*]

Ebay don't give a time limit but the general opinion is that if you haven't heard from them in a couple of weeks, and certainly before the 30 day cut off limit for cancellation, you can cancel using 'Problem with buyer's address'.
The buyer can leave negative feedback which you may be able to ask ebay to remove.
As I say, these are not ebay rules but it is what most responders here think is reasonable.

[tsmgmd]

I have not seen the original listing but from what has been said you advertised the item for delivery by courier eve, n though you also had collection only. 

Now here is the awkward position.  Your listing must be 100% accurate to be legal.

And apparently yours wasn't. 

One other point.. If you don't refund you cannot sell or dispose of the item as it is not your property.. 

I think the lesson learned is sometimes you have to bite the bullet.. Refund the payment, sell the item on with a perfect seller rating. 

[oneofffinds]

Hi there. Thanks for this. I don't think my listing was inaccurate. It said Collection Only which it was. I just gave a Buyer the option to have it collected by their own courier if they didn't want to make the journey themselves. I clearly stated I would not pack and send.

I wrote in the Description: "Because the glass is so fragile, I would prefer not to mail this. Collection from central London is free or you can arrange your own collection but it will not be wrapped or packed by me as I do not want responsibility for its safe passage in courier-land."

In Postage I had ticked: "Services available: Courier - Check the item description or contact the seller for details"

He did contact me before buying and we discussed collection. He said he didn't know when he would next be in London but would get in touch when he was coming and I gave him my telephone number and asked him to text so I wouldn't miss his message. I also asked him to collect before the end of the month because I had builders coming and needed the space as I had to move all my furniture out of one room. So he knew before he bought that this was collection only. He could have either collected it or arranged a friend or his own courier at any time in the 44 days before he asked for a refund. There was no lack of understanding and I asked eBay to check all this in my Messages.

eBay should have a policy for Collection Only items that people don't collect. If their policy was to cancel the transaction after 14 or 30 days but give the Buyer who flakes a black mark, then at least other Sellers would know that this was a poor buyer.

I am not able to leave Feedback on him because I disputed his Feedback on me. So other Sellers will not know that he is a bad buyer and nasty to boot. If I had known he had a bad rating and flaked on deals before, I would have sold to the woman who bid me the same price on the same day, rather than selling to him because his bid came in first.

As it is, eBay removed his feedback but left my rating at 66.67%. I have been a member for 13 years and always had a 100% positive rating. Now this guy behaves like a **** and I am the one who looks bad.

So you're definitely right, Sellers need to know that this is possible for collection only items.

[fargvs]

For your other currently listed collection items (Revise if no bids) and for future reference :- 

Cash payment (or cleared Bank Transfer) is safest and best for buyer collection or seller delivered items = Immediate payment >> so with cash in hand ... No 21 day payment holds, PayPal fees, need for scans/codes or risk of later Chargebacks/disputes/refund requests etc. ...

Set your 'Cash on collection preferred' payment terms and pickup in person requirements here >

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/selling/posting-items/setting-postage-options/local-pickup?id=4181

[oneofffinds]

Thanks Fargvs. That's really helpful. I will check all my listings and revise them to cash or bank transfer.

I think most of my items are for collection only but I have also said that I will be available if they want to arrange their own courier and think I'd better not offer that either.

[john1297576]

Well it has all been covered in other answers, but as I see it you advertised as delivery by Courier, NOT COLLECTION IN PERSON. Buyer paid and you did not arrange delivery!!

You seem to have expected not to deliver and keep the money. That isn't the way it works.

I am afraid that it appears that you brought his all on yourself, when at the very least you should have refunded voluntarily, possibly after deducting paypal fees and ebay fees which after 30 days would not have been refundable.

[oneofffinds]

Hi John, I never expected to keep the money! I told him he could still come to collect but that I didn't want to cancel the transaction. eBay cancelled the transaction because of his request. I didn't expect them to just cancel the transaction. As far as I am concerned it's his and he just has to collect it.
I thought it was very clear in the Description that it was Collection Only or they arrange their own courier. The Buyer certainly knew this before purchasing and this is all clear in the messages in my eBay Messages with him. But as someone else pointed out, I must not have checked the right box in the Postage section.
Do the rules go by the Description or by the Postage section?

[red_magpie]

Your account is incorrect in one important sense - you did not list it for collection only. In eBay's Postage and Payments section, which is what counts, you didn't even mention collection - you only offered to arrange a courier.

If I have understood events correctly, your buyer opened an eBay case, which eBay then closed in your favour because at 44 days it was beyond their 30 day time limit to claim.

He then opened a Paypal case. You haven't actually told us whether they supported him! If they did, it will probably be because they were confused by your reference to arranging courier delivery.

If so, you should certainly appeal, as the full description makes clear that it was for collection, and no charge had been included for delivery. Paypal's buyer protection policy excludes items sold for collection. The procedures to file a complaint with Paypal or, in the last resort, to appeal to the financial ombudsman are explained in the user agreement.

Regrettably there's nothing to be done about the refund. By not giving the reason for this, your buyer has ensured that there's no grounds for removal.

With hindsight, it isn't a good idea to refuse any refund to buyers who don't collect their items. You would have been better advised to deduct your selling fees, and refund the balance.

I wouldn't worry that much about the feedback. Not giving any reason for it diminishes its importance; any sensible buyer will look at your whole feedback and dismiss it. You would be amazed how many buyers never even check feedback anyway!

[oneofffinds]

Thanks for this. I thought it was clear in my description that the Buyer
had to collect or arrange their own collection. I thought it was clear I
would not arrange a courier because I was sure I could not pack safely but
they could arrange their own and I would be available.

Before he bought it he messaged me because his Bid was below the asking
price. I gave him my location details so he knew where to collect and so
he knew for 44 days that he had to collect or arrange collection on his
behalf. It was never unclear.

This is really helpful. I'd better go back and check all my listings
because I think I've said people can arrange their own courier before to
try to make life easier for people.

I don't know yet what Paypal will decide but when you try to dispute the
case it's a check box system for different situations, and for the closest
option you need to provide a Tracking Number for delivery. Collection Only
items are not an option.

[*guinevere*]

Why has your buyer asked for a refund? Paypal's buyer protection does not cover collection items. This, from their MBG

Exemptions from the program

Our Seller Protection program does not cover:

• items not authorized by our Acceptable Use Policy or prohibited by law
• licenses for digital content and digital goods,
• Claims, Chargebacks and Reversals for Significantly Not as Described.
• Items that you deliver (or are picked up) in person
• Transactions made through Zong, PayPal Integral Evolution (where the items purchased are Intangible items, licenses for digital content, and/or services), or Virtual Terminal (if available)
• items equivalent to cash (including, without limitation, stored value items such as gift cards and pre-paid cards ).
• payments made in respect of financial products and investments.
• Donations,
• items bought via classified listings,
• payments made in respect of gold (whether in physical form or in exchange-traded form),
• PayPal Mass Payment transactions,
• Disputes filed directly with PayPal in the Resolution Centre.

In future if you sell anything collection in person give the buyer a deadline when they have to collect, and after that date cancel the transaction. Ideally you should ask for cash on collection, this will nullify any access the buyer has to the ebay MBG. 

Buyers have 30 days to open a case with ebay, but if buyer pays cash they have no protection.

[*guinevere*]

OP, I have just read your post again. Having read it a second time I'm not sure whether your buyer actually collected the item. Can you clarify whether they did or not?

[oneofffinds]

Hi Guinevere
Thanks for this. He never picked up the item. After 44 days he said he couldn't come because of Covid travel restrictions, even though they had been announced, they weren't in effect for another 4 days and were not in effect the previous 44 days. He basically couldn't be bothered to come collect or just changed his mind.

The problem is now my Seller Rating is ruined even though eBay took down his nasty Feedback, or will do within 72 hours. Surely if I am not at fault and they agreed this when they removed his Feedback, his rating shouldn't be left there? I've never had a bad review or transaction before and can't believe they won't fix this.

I thought it was safer to take payments on Paypal so are you saying it is better to ask for cash on collection?

Thanks again.