A dangerous bad buyer

[dba1477_vjktey]

I have been selling  and buying on ebay since it began in 1995. I bought and sold hundreds of things without a problem.  I clearly state in my listing I DO NOT TAKE RETURNS.  I am one old pensioner and I want buyers to look clearly at what I have and decide yes or no..

I had a buyer, whho did nor know Chinese coins, ordered them and then said they were fakes.  I have been selling coins for most of my life, and NEVER had a problem until now.  

And Ebay TOOK HIS SIDE.  He has ruined my ability to sell coins on Ebay, and I cannot even find a way to tell ebay about it.

If this is how Ebay wants to work things out, then I want out of ebay totally.   Barry De Vault

[1956glyn]

Hi

You may well put on listings I DO NOT TAKE RETURNS but if a buyer states an item you sell is not as described it is better to accept the case and agree to refund upon return of the item to you.   If you do nothing or try to fight the case 99% of the time you will lose.  Ebay have been known to force the refund and even tell the buyer that they do not have to even return the item. 

This is because nothing you write on a listing will over ride a buyers rights under Ebays money back Guarantee.  No returns is just for a change of mind or does not fit purchase which you can refuse as a pricate seller.  Yes some buyers fib to force a seller to accept a change of mind return.

Ebay cases are pretty much automated and Ebay will 99% of the time side with a buyer if they claim the item is not as described....basically because Ebay never get to see the actual item in dispute.

The above are just part of the joys and risk of selling on Ebay 😞

Ebay may or may not remove the negative.    I would request it removed on the basis that they have called you a scammer and also said the coin is fake without any authenticated proof that it is indeed fake.

To contact Ebay CS you have to go to the help and contact tab at the top of the page and search something like contact Ebay customer services. 

[rusticrye]

Ebay have no idea what you actually sent, or what condition it was in when sent, as they were not present when sent or received, so have no choice but to accept a buyer's word for it when they claim Not As Described, as per their Money Back Guarantee.  They cannot get into disputes between you and a buyer.  Only a judge can decide if a buyer is a liar or scammer.

You agreed to comply with the MBG when you registered your account. If you dig your heels in and refuse to offer refund on return, Ebay will either force you to pay for a returns label, or they will force the refund without the need for return. You will also have a damaging defect slapped on your account for failing to comply.

This may sound unfair, but it's the fairest it can possibly be.  The MBG is a very good thing (although you may not think that at present) as it gives buyers the confidence to shop with you and every other Ebay seller.  Without it, you'd be lucky to sell anything at all.  In fact, without it, Ebay would no longer exist.

You have to refund on receipt, and then report the buyer to Ebay for abusing the MBG by fraudulently claiming Not As Described (via the 'report' button on your ‘leave feedback’ page) if you're 100% sure that's what they've done.  A few of those from different sellers, and their account will soon be toast.  And add their Ebay ID to your Blocked Bidders List so they can’t darken your doorway again.

You can then deal with the buyer outside of Ebay as follows, if they have actually scammed you:

Send them a PayPal invoice to cover your losses, giving them 7 days to send cleared payment or you will be taking legal action and reporting them to Action Fraud (the police's online fraud unit).

If payment is not received within that timeframe, send them a 'before action' letter by Signed For post, giving them 7 days from receipt to make full and cleared payment, or you will report them to Action Fraud, and take them to Small Claims court to recover your money and all court and other costs.

If payment is still not received (unlikely, as this is generally enough to put the fear of god into small-time fraudsters), take them to Small Claims court if you wish.  Very easy to do, and the process can be started online.

@dba1477_vjktey 

[tsmgmd]

Ebay are in a difficult position.. UK law on distance selling is quite clear.. The item must be as described and any defects etc must be described within the listing text.. This makes having listings displaying No Returns a pointless exercise. 

If eBay recieve a claim for not as described they have to agree with the return as they did not see the item before or after delivery. 

This is one of the problems of online selling. 

[jhswestwood]

To my point that I made above. I said I was selling a box, just a box, I
then showed a picture of the box with any marks on it etc.. Now the buyer
is stating that I in fact was selling a box with contents, which I wasn't
and it wasn't stated as such or shown as such. Yet eBay will side with the
buyer?

There is no contention that the box arrived or the state in which the box
arrived, merely that it was only a box. So in this case I don't see what I
could have done differently? Notwithstanding the fact that I sold 3 of them
(identical) and the other 2 have been received well by the buyers with no
issues, I am still to blame?

Here is how I would expect it to go!

eBay to buyer: We notice that the listing was for a box - clearly stated in
the description and title.
Did you get a box?
Buyer: yes
eBay to buyer: Did it look like the one in the advert?
Buyer: yes
eBay to buyer: You made a mistake, read the advert!
NEXT!

I appreciate there is the law to follow but I don't expect eBay to absolve
themselves of all responsibility to address issues. I'd also like to make
it clear that as a private individual and not a business that I do not have
to adhere to DSR's (which also no longer exist and have been replaced by
the CCR), however this is a moot point considering I'm also not at fault!

As with most people I'm genuinely trying to sell something and not out to
diddle people, I haven't got a great feedback on eBay by doing things
wrong. However from time to time things go wrong and I expect that when
things do eBay will take more than algorithmic interest into what has
occured. But I think that in my case at least I need protection from buyers
as opposed to the other way around. The buyer in my case is clearly at-it.

[dba1477_vjktey]

If eBay allows one to say NO RETURNS, THEN IT SHOULD NO RETURNS. Not everybody is JOHN LEWIS or AMAZON, with staff to pack
and organize returns. If the buyer does not really ask all the qutions and look at the itemin photos then some responsibility must fall on the buyer.
And if a seller has hundreds of positive responses, then someone should really consider, did the seller go crazy and begin selling rubbish,
as good mterials, or is the buyer just wanting to return something, as in BUYERS REMORSE!!!


Sent from Outlook

[tobiasd4]

Most of us here will agree with you,
but it is ebay who make the rules, sometimes they are unfair & we have to accept it or leave ebay.

[1956glyn]

Playing Devils Advocate......one persons opinion of very good or excellent condition may not be mine. Another reason why i rarely purchase online apart from the stores i would usually go to in person.

[red_magpie]

If this is how Ebay wants to work things out, then I want out of ebay totally.

It will have to be bye bye eBay, then. If you do stay, you need to understand the full risks. Most sellers don't.

On eBay, the seller has no say whatsoever over refunds. You have agreed in the user agreement to accept eBay's decisions on all disputes with buyers.

EBay's policy is that when they "can't determine that the item received by the buyer matches the listing description" they will require the seller to refund them. As eBay never even sees the item, it's a foregone conclusion that they will take the buyer's side.

Even worse, if the buyer returns a totally different coin they will still probably enforce the refund. EBay reportedly told one seller that "As we didn't see the original item that you sent to the buyer and we didn't see the item the buyer returned to you, we are not in a position to take sides in these situations and verify who has the valid complaint". EBay's idea of not taking sides is to support the buyer.

And just for good measure, if you have to refund a buyer because the item was delayed in the post, eBay will give you no support of the buyer then keeps both the refund and the item, when it arrives.

And finally - keep your postal receipts for at least six months. Because that's how long PayPal gives buyers to report that their item didn't arrive. If the seller has thrown away their postal receipt with the tracking number it means an automatic refund.

Incidentally, I have a number of quite valuable collectibles that I would like to sell on eBay, but for all the reasons above I just won't risk it.

[jhswestwood]

I have been in a simlar position on a couple of occasions and it is really frustrating. I have listed some empty boxes for some technology items I had used and someone bought them (for £10 I might add) and then stated that there was no tech inside them and that I was a fraud! The advert picture was of a box (no tech) and the advert clearly stated in the title and the description in BOLD - BOX ONLY

So yes Ebay will pretty much every time side with the buyer and not the seller but this is the way it works. Now I'm happy to refund the person if it was a genuine mistake but TBH they are being really silly about it and claiming that I'm breaching some selling standards (for businesses - which I'm not!) and so I'm just going to let the Ebay policy kick in and refund them and I'll take the hit.

It really is annoying when you try your best (I have a totally clean record with great feedback and like you been at this for around 20 years). 

Keep going sir, if it is your passion then don't give up on it. You are putting yourself out there by advertising things for sale and sometimes you just run into people that are not worth worrying about, I'm sure you have plenty of very happy customers that appreciate your service, focus on them.

Comiserations, I share your pain!

[tobiasd4]

Ebay never see item, but always believe buyer if they claim not as described.

You should have accepted return, sent label & refunded when received back.

Good thing is because buyer mentioned refund in feedback, you can ask ebay to remove it.