EBay asking for national insurance number , I sell a lot but buy a lot hobby is collecting coins

[23mrf]

I’ve started collecting coins and I buy a large lot of coins take out what I want and then Sell what’s left over. Been doing this for 9 months, I am about £500 out of pocket from my initial outlay but am selling about £1000 in sales each month, will HMRC take into account that I am not taking out any money from my ebay account and realise it’s just a hobby or am I going to have to pay income tax on £12000 in sales? If so I may have to sell my collection to pay them!!!!

[sml192]

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@lees_sales21 wrote:

Whilst I am pretty disappointed with the recent Buyer Protection Fee and Simple Delivery programms, which has completely stopped me from selling, the NI number is not down to eBay. It is an OECD ruling that eBay has to legally comply with.

They will only ask for it is you sell over £1,700 (approx) or 30 items in a calendar year (not tax year).

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I have seen many posters stating 'if you sell over/more than/exceed the thresholds' but it is actually when the thresholds are met, not exceeded, that determines whether a seller is reportable.  It is also 30 transactions not items. 

It should also be noted that a Reporting Platform Operator can actually request the required information (NI number, etc) at any time.  It doesn't necessarily have to wait until the reporting thresholds are met. 

[lees_sales21]

True.

Either way, given how many issues I have with eBay and software bugs, there's zero chance I would trust them with my NI number.

I just would stop using them altogether.

I pretty much have already as this Simple Delivery has made it impossible for me to sell.

I used to be able to take it straight to the Post Office after work and pay £1.55.

Now with the fairly recent changes the cheapest option available via Simple or Custom delivery is £2.72, no matter what size or weight I select. 

I have been right through all the Simple delivery options and all the Custom delivery settings. £2.72 is the best.

I also have no printer, no way of doing a QR code, unless I use someone else's phone and they aren't going to lend it to me for the full day or a collection, but that doesn't work as I work full time.

So, Simple Delivery is anything but for me.

It has literally stopped me from selling.

And if I cannot sell my stuff, I won't be buying either. 

[dch2112011]

A point you may not be aware of is under simple delivery you can request that a  package is collected from you or a safe place and the postie will bring the label and stick it on for you - How simple is that !

As far as the nino is concerned - don't supply it, don't trade on ebay or any other platform - HMRC will find it and if they feel compelled to do so will cross check all your sources of benifits and income paid into the bank  -( oh yes your bank is already reporting your financial activities to HMRC )

Closing your account will not hide the level of sales on ebay completed - you are most definately not anonymous when you close your account - the footprint is firmly embedded 

[lees_sales21]

If you read my post I said collection is not an option for me either.

I didn't say I wouldn't comply with legislation.

I have dealt with HMRC directly on a number of occasions, none of which required me to pass on my NI number to a 3rd party  like eBay.

And I won't be handing it over to them either.

It would be much easier for me to simply post items out 

[specialk1937]

Realise that ebay is required to ask for this information but I was irked
not only because it came shortly after the Buyers Protection Fee imposition
and then the postage restrictions. It just felt like an onslaught from
ebay! Moreover HMRC know my NI Number anyway (they quote on any paperwork
I receive from them) and seeing that I have only earnt £146 this year I
couldn't see what all the fuss was about!

[gjalp]

I think many people are misunderstanding this whole online market place thing. Ebay reporting the 30 items or £1700 is totally separate to declaring income to HMRC. 

If, like me, you have a ton of stuff bought/acquired/passed on family belongings cluttering up your attic/home and you decide to sell them (I have a private ID for these items), unless a single item or set sells for £6000+, this monies is NOT income or earnings (as per tax returns) and doesn’t need to be declared, neither do you have expenses per se. Over £6000, then you DO tell HMRC as it will be subject to Capital Gains Tax, for example, you sell a diamond necklace for £7550 and a battered speed boat for £9000 then both of these must be declared to HMRC and Capital Gains Tax may be due (there is some maths voodoo that they perform to calculate this but I forget the details)

If you buy something to specifically sell on (these items can be new or bought at car boot or charity shops or somewhere else and only purchased for the sole purpose for reselling to make a bit of money) or if you have a dog walking/pet sitting service, window cleaning round, knit things as a hobby and sell the finished product (I started out making beaded flowers/earrings etc and sold those along with surplus beads as it was cheaper to buy in bulk) then it is classed as trading and you will need to declare it to HMRC once the trading threshold has been reached. YOU need to tell them as it income, not ebay or any other platform. You will also have trading expenses that can be used in reporting to work out how much tax (if any) is due. This is where a trading allowances comes into play because you are trading.

This information is available on the HMRC website and they also have a youtube channel.

if you have sold 40 year old comics that have been stored in the attic or toys/clothes your kids have grown out of then unless one single item sells for more than £6000, then generally  you do not have to tell HMRC about it. 

[*vyolla*]

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@lees_sales21 wrote:

Also, be very careful of that M and S email. 

Marks and Spencers have said they do not keep any card details, so the fact they are stating they have them, is suspect tbh. 

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I'm going to find out exactly what info they do store, because it also mentions 'household information' that's been compromised. Can't say I've ever completed one of those surveys that tries to find out how many family members there are and what age etc., so would like to know what that might be.

[specialk1937]

As a general point about ebay asking for National Insurance Numbers I would
simply say that we live in an age of surveillance and scams. So we need to
be on constant alert against anybody and everybody, who would seek to
obtain personal information about us, no matter where it purports to come
from. We should never stop questioning things, otherwise it could lead to
trouble!

[dch2112011]

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@lees_sales21 wrote:

If you read my post I said collection is not an option for me either.

I didn't say I wouldn't comply with legislation.

I have dealt with HMRC directly on a number of occasions, none of which required me to pass on my NI number to a 3rd party  like eBay.

And I won't be handing it over to them either.

It would be much easier for me to simply post items out 

You seem to be the immovable object -  you have internet access and a device to post on the forum and buy and sell online -  using your credit card, giving all your personal details to anybody or any organisation you want to sell or buy from online ! 

So you embrace technology yet refuse to  buy a cheap printer or allow RM to collect from a safe place and bring the label - you merely said you were at work all day -  the system caters for those at work all day !

You refuse to give your nino to anybody except HMRC - over the phone ? on email? when setting up compulsory online tax accounts?  Through compulsory third party software needed to submit tax returns ?  - Naive to think these are any more secure than ebay !

Then what about pension companies ? NHS - doctors surgeries - hospitals - benefits ?

The list of where your nino is given and stored is massive - most of which is susceptible to security breaches online ! 

Still keep putting the obstacles up when it suits you - it is only yourself you inconvenience. 

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[gjalp]

Absolutely. The NI number does irk me since I have been filing a self assessment for over 20 years and in my opinion, its the most important personal thing about me with the next being my NHS number (I am less likely to be scammed for that one). However, it is a legal requirement for digital reporting and Im sure online platforms would rather not have to faff with that so we either provide it when requested or stop selling. The blame for that lies elsewhere rather than ebay.

[lees_sales21]

I was only replying to your sarky  comment.

It is quite frankly none of your business my personal affairs.

Yes, I have an eBay account.

It might have crossed your mind that I have sold items to help pay the bills, like many other people do.

One month last year at the end of the month I had £5.79 balance.

So, I do not really have the funds for a printer and haven't needed one,  as I simply called into the Post Office. I also enjoyed the social able side of that too.

I do have a smart phone, but it is a work one. Therefore a lot of apps are blocked.  

For one a QR code app. It won't work.

I have tried.

It also will not take photos of QR codes.

Again, those are blocked.

I use the phone because my texts, calls and (mobile data to some extent) are free.

I could of course use someone's phone, but that would mean having their phone all day, which isn't very practical nowadays.

I also do keep my personal details private.

I am not sure why my mobile number has to be provided to a buyer, considering my contract is via eBay and they have my details.

Also, as explained the cheapest postage listed is nearly twice what I would pay direct from the Post Office. And I would then be giving the item away, or even making a loss.

what is the point of that?

sorry about this reply being random, but it won't let me go back and reword lines above, there is a scroll bar to the right, but it is not moving.

Regards the collection, where I work I never know for certain when I will finish or when I will get home etc, hence the free mobile. 

Hence dropping into the Post Office after work, when I could also worked for me.

it isn't about being immovable, it is about what works for me. I cannot genuinely use a printer. Nor afford one. I cannot use a QR code. Unless I buy a phone, but they would I do that when I have free access to this one?

I cannot arrange a collection, because I can never be certain when I will be there for it.

And why would I pay nearly double for that, when I can call in my local Post Office and get it shipped at the earliest available time for me?

With regards to NI number I provide it to the institutions that I am legally required to, such as a bank, (work) pension etc as you suggest, but to nobody that doesn't legally require it.

eBay only require it to pass onto HMRC, but I would deal direct with HMRC if required and have done so in the past.

I self-declared (incorrectly) as I had taken in £1,000 before fees and ended up paying tax on that, which was refunded as it was personal items no longer needed and sold.

The following year I also self-declared (but was under the £1,000), but I did that anyway to keep myself right, and then received a letter from them, that said I didn't need to self-declare going forward and they would be in contact with me, if required.

So, I know I do not need to contact HMRC. 

And therefore do not wish to have my NI number handed to a 3rd party, when I already have a number of software issues with them, which remain unresolved. 

I have genuine reasons why I cannot use the new delivery system and genuine reasons why I do not want to pass on very personal information. 

Hacking etc is a major problem now and I try my best to protect myself. I see no issue with that. 

At the end of the day I am selling stuff I have had for at least 5 or 6 years and in some cases much longer than eBay has been running. They are my items, purchased to read and enjoy, but now I have listed for sale, usually because I needed the money or space.

I get what you are saying. It should be 'Simple' and I should just abide by the NI number provision, but it genuinely isn't simple for me and has literally stopped me from selling. I have 947 reviews listed (more than that actually, but it doesn't recognise when you sell more than one item at a time) and 100% positive feedback. I have only one neutral and that was down to them not reading the detailed description and photographs. Only had 2 other issues. One item went missing, which I did my best to try and assist and gave a full refund to the buyer, who knew I had done everything I could and left me amazing feedback. The other was the item (a comic) accidently got wet. So I 'repaired' it and actually it was ok after, with no watermarking, thinning or evidence of such. I advised them of such and sent it to them free of charge and gave them a full refund. I don't think I could do anything more. 

I pride myself on giving amazing customer service, packaging well and posting as soon as I possibly can and charging as little as I can (mostly free postage). I made very little on most sales, but I had either finished with the item or I needed the money. 

eBay has currently stopped me from being able to sell, so I do have some items to go, some have just gone to local charities (which isn't a bad thing tbh). 

Hence my utter frustration, because I would love to sell some more and for buyers to get something they want, at a good price and I have some extra money in the bank.

HMRC knows what I am selling and they would contact me if needed in the future. I have the letter as proof of that. I also keep sales under £1,000 each tax year before fees, just in case. 

I have every sale documented, including price, postage charge, listing no, order no, refunds, fees and postage costs. 

So, I have everything there if needed. 

They are more accurate than eBay's because they have 2 sales missing and refunds not shown on 3 listings.

I have all of them and screenshots too, as they didn't match.

I am genuinely a great eBayer. So, I find this Buyer Protection Fee and Simple Delivery annoying as I as a seller feel I should be paying the fee, not the buyer and try and keep the price down. Simple delivery doesn't work at all for me, so it has stopped me selling. Having lost that ability it has also stopped me buying, because I need rid of stuff, not get more. 

So, apologies for getting sarky in return, but  I hope you can see why I genuinely have an issue with eBays recent policies and why I do not wish to raise the risk of security of my information. 

For many the simple delivery will be great, getting the parcel collected at home, some of my buyers and sellers were virtually housebound, so for them it would be great. For me not so. It means I have to be available for them to collect it and I genuinely cannot do that, mainly because of work. 

Such a shame as I provided a good service, have piles of stuff to sell and could do with the money. But cannot sell items unless I can go personally to the PO, as they are low cost items mainly, so that £2.72 makes it uneconomical. 

Hope you can now understand my frustration and apologises for my sarky attitude. It is purely down to frustration at no longer being in the position I was before which worked for me. I didn't make a lot, but it really helped me and buyers got what they wanted at a price that was good. 

I cannot provide that any longer and it frustrates me. 

I am sure many others have similar issues, not exactly the same, but BPF prevents their sale of low cost items.

Such a shame as I have have dealt with some genuienly great buyers and sellers.

I hope it works for you and others, but sadly it no longer does for me. 

Collection is not an option for me, due to work. Unless I could get them to collect on a Sunday. 

[lees_sales21]

Exactly my point. I don't want to raise that risk still further. My NI number is already listed with banks, etc. 

When dealing with HMRC I don't use 3rd party software. I do it myself via Gov.Uk. 

I already have a number of software bugs, which haven't been resolved by eBay despite contacting them, sending them screen shots and videos. The issues remain. 

So, naturally I feel reluctant to provide eBay with my NINO, especially when I have already dealt directly with HMRC and have a letter from them, saying I do not need to self-declare and they would be in contact with me in future, if required.

I wish to sell, but I am prevented from doing so with BPF and Simple Delivery, so I hope that is reversed in the future.

Until then I cannot sell. 

And if it becomes essential to provide eBay with my NINO then I won't use them at all.

I think the security risk with eBay is too high  given the issues I have already.

[specialk1937]

I am super paranoid, I don't even bank online. The less financial
information I give to anybody the safe I feel!

[lees_sales21]

There are a lot like yourself. 

Myself included tbh. 

Although I do use a banking app.

(That isn't the same as online). 

I feel that too many people these days leave themselves vulnerable. 

There are some instances we cannot get around, but others we can. 

I try to minimise it that risk as much as I possibly can. 

[specialk1937]

Amen to that!

[lees_sales21]

I did write out a lengthy response to this, but for some reason I cannot see it.

I explained why collection doesn't work for me (due to never knowing due to work, when I will be available for the collection). Hence popping into the PO on my way home worked perfectly and has for years.

Now that option is gone...

The money I made on the sales helped pay the bills. One month I had £5.79 left.

Hence no printer. I never needed one when I went directly to the PO.

Regards the QR code.

I do have a work phone.

My texts, calls and mobile data (to some extent is free), the downside is some restrictions. QR codes being one. The app won't load. They are blocked.

It also will not let me take a photo of a QR code. It comes up with a security message and will not take the shot.

So QR codes doesn't work.

Printing isn't an option

Collection is out.

For many collection will be awesome.

For me, not an option.

It is not about being immovable, it is about it actually working for you. 

I am not going to go out and purchase another phone when I have one for free. 

Yes, you are spot on with regards to the NINO my bank, work pension fund, etc has it, but I can still try to minimise that risk. I choose to do that.

I comply with all legislation. All you have to do is inform HMRC. I do that if required. 

I self-assessed for tax in my first year selling as I had made £1,000 after fees (I wrongly assumed it was after fees). However, after dealing with HMRC it was evident that I was not a trader. As I am not. They are my personal items, some of which I have had longer than eBay has been running. 

I also received a letter from HMRC that stated that I did no need to self-assess in the future (unless I had to pay CGT). Not much chance of that!

They went on to say that they would contact me in future, if needs be.

So, I genuinely do not have to inform HMRC and have a letter from them that proves this. They send the letter with the refund I received for payment, but later realised shouldn't have been paid.

I do not use 3rd party tax services. I keep a full record of all sales, price, postage charged, listing no, order no, refunds, fees paid and postage paid.

In the past when I did incorrectly self declare I did that myself via the GOV.UK website. It wasn't difficult tbh.

 I preferred to pay the seller fee, because I think that is who should pay it, not the buyer. With it being added onto the buyer it makes a lot of my low cost items sales pointless.

Hence the £1.55 postage worked. £2.72 doesn't. It just doesn't work. 

I have had a number of issues with eBay's software. There are a few bugs, I have sent them screen shots, videos etc. The problems still exist, so that makes me more reluctant to hand them my NINO.

It is not about being immovable. It is about having a system that actually works for me. It used to. It doesn't now.

[dch2112011]

A few recent breaches and warnings where nino has been breached or is in danger of being breached - 

DWP exposed 6,000 people’s data online for two years - 2020 including national insurance numbers 

HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) has sounded the alarm over its “old and ageing IT systems”, 2023 - national insurance information at risk 

BBC, British Airways and Boots plus 90 other organisations, lose data in a massive data breach 2023 - all personal information including national insurance details

You may have missed this change to submitting self assesment tax returns  where all of your personal information on the tax return will need to be submitted via approved third party software  rather than via the .gov portal - there are limits currently 50k gross income to drop to 20k in a couple of years 

26 Mar 2025
The government has confirmed alongside today’s Spring Statement that HMRC is to require taxpayers in its Making Tax Digital programme to complete their self assessment tax returns using third party software.

HMRC also announced that MTD will now also be extended to sole traders and landlords with income over £20,000 from April 2028, bringing an additional 900,000 sole traders and landlords into the regime.  

Bear in mind the £20000 figure covers all self employed or letting income 

This will no doubt cover a lot of ebay private account sellers as well as business sellers  - who will have to keep all their records via third party software and submit them quarterly to HMRC - some exemptions are available but they are limited.

Sellers of a few bits and pieces will probably fall under the net but many collectors, hoarders, selling vast amounts of 'personal items wherever sourced over a period of time rather than as one off sales will be gathered up into making tax digital 

So in a nutshell third party holders of the nino information will grow - Why worry about ebay when the govt lose your data ?

[dch2112011]

Because your taxable income is below your tax threshold - you will receive a letter informing you that you do not need to file a tax return however the onus is on you to file a return should your circumstances change or if you want to contribute to national insurance - state pension contributions or to claim benefits 

The reason is that it is not cost effective for HMRC to handle your return when there is no financial tax gain, but do be aware that your pension and benefits can be adversely affected - for some people it is in their interest to file a return even when no tax is due.

[lees_sales21]

At the end of the day I do not have to self-asess so that would not apply to me anyway.

Also, one of my best friends is an Accountant, so would submit on my behalf for free. 

Until such times I would use the Gov.Uk portal as I still have the account. 

I am not trying to negate anything. I openly filed a return as I thought it was £1,000 after fees (my fees were about £400 or so from memory), but it was £1,000 before fees (for a trader).

However, once I looked more  into it, I realised that they were personal items, comics, DVDs, toys, electronic consoles etc. 

I got a double whammy for them, as I bought them for the kids, sold them and gave them all the money after fees. Lol.

Such is being a parent.

So, I got a refund from HMRC and a letter explaining I did not need to self-assess in the future. 

I have stopped selling now. The last thing I sold I think was in March. 

Just frustrated, as I kept my prices as low as I possibly could and sent them off well packaged as soon as I could. Had amazing feedback and cleared stuff a bit.

Now that opportunity is gone.

I understand by using eBay's platform they decide the rules, but I shouldn't have to pay more for postage than I can get it just up the road. I wouldn't mind if it was still viable if they took a cut, but as they are low cost items it isnt. 

I used to sell them at £2.99

After eBay fees, postage costs and envelope. 

It didn't leave a lot.

But it still helped and the buyer got something they really wanted  eBay got their money too.

Win win.

Regards data loss. Yes, I am aware of breeches and risk. I can still try to minimise that risk. Especially given my problems with eBays platform. 

I keep excellent records of every transaction. They are more accurate than eBays. 

For some reasons 2 sales I made are not listed at all and 3 refunds are not shown. 

I have all the screen shots of the sales and the refunds as proof.

So, record keeping isn't a problem at all. 

Regards data breeches. 

I know that all too well. 

In a nutshell any password less than 15 characters can be cracked in less than 5 minutes. 

A 15 character password uses a different algorithm, which is much more difficult to decipher.

I cannot eliminate risk and there are breeches all the time. I can still try and minimise it as much as I can. I still think that is sensible.

Regarding accounts, taxes and digital technology in the future. That is a major accident waiting to happen. For all of us.

When you look into cyber crime, one time password, 2 verification, MB7 phone breeches etc then it is an absolute minefield.

I choose to still minimise that risk.

I would never do online banking.

Knowing what I know, not a chance.

Apps are much safer because of how the algorithms are systemically processed. Not 100% safe, but far, far safer than online.

We live in a world that is becoming more and more digitised. Great in many, many ways. A worry in others.

You have left some great, valid points on here for many users to read and ponder.

I am not immovable. 

If it was viable I would sell.

It I could print I would do so.

If I could use a QR code it would be easy.

A collection, is amazing for people who cannot get around etc.

A lot of people do not like the BPF and SD systems. Trustpilot is full of them. 

I am not a trader.

Just a hoarder. 

If it becomes a hassle then it will go to charity. 

Or the bin.

eBay is just becoming too much hassle for private sellers. In the end those sellers are in turn buyers, so eBay loses out.

Not ideal as a trading platform.

[lees_sales21]

No, it was after speaking to HMRC via phone, and email. 

They refunded the money as they could see I was not a trader, so there was no tax to pay on sales of my items.

Hence the letter.

It was related to the specific  refund, not my £12,570 etc taxable allowance.

I get what you are saying, but I do pay income tax at 20% above the limit.

I am not self employed. 

So, my NI and pensions are all done via PAYE etc. 

Last year I genuinely only had £5.79 left.

I am in a much better place, but to sell my stuff it has to be effective, not just for me but the buyer too.

I sold them at £2.99

If my postage is now £2.72 before I buy an envelope then it is pointless selling it. 

It isnt worth the hassle. 

I probably would lose money.

Plus eBay will probably end up charging nearer £4 with the BPF.

That means a sale is less likely. 

For a comic, £4 is getting to a point where you think, I will wait.

Yes, it is pointless HMRC doing loads of work with little return. 100%.

This was specifically in relation  to my sales.

My profile name is purely I had to come up with a name and as I was selling, it made sense.

Tbh I have bought more than I have sold, like lamps, leads, books for me, the kids etc. 

Now I cannot sell I have knocked purchases on the head too. 

Which I find frustrating because there is a buyer out there and sellers too. Money for eBay to make. Just seems crazy.