Buyer had to pay more postage upon delivery

[delantha]

What happens when Rpyal mail decides to charge a buyer upon delivery for more postage. The buyer agrees to it and pays. Who is respinsible for the extra charge. I sent an item large letter  35x25x2.5. I meesured it out as I always do. It was actually smaller than the allowed size foir a large letter. When deliverd royal mail said NO it's a small pacakge and charged the buyer £3.50. NOW the buyer wants me to refund her the £3.50. I myself would have rejected it and had Royal mail send it back. I do not feel I am responsible for the extra charge . The buyer should have rejected it. So what do you guys think Thank yoing you in advance 

[delantha]

I sent info on the packaging because people will be asking what size was it. Was it a letter , small pack, How much did it weigh and so on. This was to avoid all question about the package. The question was about who is responsible for paying the extra cost. I was willing to pay it I was curious as it has never happen to me before who is actually responsible for paying it.
I still say the buyer.
Private public that I did not know Thank you for that tip. Cheers Margaret

[dch2112011]

Do you mean that you have understood the questions you asked and now accept that the responses given to you were relevant and pertinent to you causing your buyer a problem they could well do without ?

Or do you just feel entitled to ignore the RM size guides and expect customers to pay for your mistakes ? 

You really need to take responsibility not look for tea and sympathy from other members and take offense when members try and help you - this is the bad attitude that you freely display.

I guess that with the very small amount you sell that you have not had the experiance to hone your customer skills - and this is why you did not understand what is required of you when things go wrong - reaching out to the forum was a good thing to do but acting entitled does you no favours 

[delantha]

what is entitled?

[notstopbuying]

entitled

adjective

believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.

"kids who feel so entitled and think the world will revolve around them"

[m25jet]

If you failed to pay the correct price for the postage, having underpaid the amount that you should have paid, then you ought to pay the remainder of the balance that the buyer was told to pay when she pulled you up on the matter via eBay Messages.  Failing to ensure that you've covered the postage cost in full and then expecting a buyer to have to pay the remainder of the cost is completely out of order, and could potentially result in you picking up some negative feedback from your buyer if you don't work to resolve the issue quickly.

As to how to resolve this kind of issue, the best option is to reply to the  buyer as soon as possible once you had received the message regarding the underpaid postage, apologising to the buyer for the error, reassuring her that you will pay the extra postage cost that the Royal Mail asked her to pay, and then paying back the shortfall swiftly so as to put the issue to bed once and for all.  By approaching the situation in this manner buyers are more likely to just accept you just made a genuine mistake; however, if you take the other option and refuse to pay the remainder of the balance and just tell the buyer that she would have to pay it herself then you would be putting yourself at an increased risk of receiving some unwanted negative feedback in relation to the transaction.  In most cases once a buyer has left negative feedback it'll stick to your feedback history forever, so it is worth bearing this point in mind when dealing with problems that a buyer has taken the time to inform you about.

If you stop and think about it for a minute the buyer has actually been pretty decent.  She informed you via eBay Messages that something had gone wrong regarding the underpaid postage, thus giving you a chance to put matters right without having to go through an eBay case, whereas she could have just refused to pay the extra amount that Royal Mail were asking for and opened a case against you without even bothering to tell you beforehand about the underpaid postage.  Had she chosen to open a case against you then once eBay had the proof that the reason why she hadn't received her item was because you had underpaid on the postage and the Royal Mail had refused to deliver the item unless you paid the difference she would have won the case and you would have earned yourself a defect on your selling account.

[023tortoise2009]

This has just happened to me! 
I used large letter padded envelope (that my husband uses all the time)! I weighed it and  bought second class 250g large letter. It was checked at post office ands I have receipt for it weighing 246g!

 Buyer paid £3.50 to receive ands now wants refund but I did EVERYTHING correctly and have proof! Surely it's buyer to take up with Royal Mail????!!!!

[4_bathrooms]

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@023tortoise2009 wrote:

I used large letter padded envelope (that my husband uses all the time)! I weighed it and  bought second class 250g large letter. It was checked at post office ands I have receipt for it weighing 246g!

 Buyer paid £3.50 to receive ands now wants refund but I did EVERYTHING correctly and have proof! Surely it's buyer to take up with Royal Mail????!!!!

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It sounds like RM decided it was a small parcel - this can be based on weight and/or size. If you're using a padded envelope the depth cannot be more than 2.5cm. If the item was something that could move when being sorted by machine - like clothing or loose items that can get squeezed into one end - that might explain it.

How did you pay for the postage - i.e. did you pay at the Post Office counter, online via eBay/RM's website or did you use stamps?

Also, has the buyer sent you the link they were given on the "Fee to pay" card? What does the tracking show?

[023tortoise2009]

I paid online but checked and put through at post office! They scam off and
weigh it again! It was card so I know it was fine and as I said hubby uses
these envelopes every week as bought as large letter size for a book and
the item I sold wasn’t the thickness of his usual book!!!!

Sent from Gmail Mobile

[4_bathrooms]

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@023tortoise2009 wrote:
It was card so I know it was fine and as I said hubby uses
these envelopes every week as bought as large letter size for a book and
the item I sold wasn’t the thickness of his usual book!!!!

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Those envelopes can exceed 2.5cm if something loose gets shoved into one end during sorting. I can't imagine that would happen to a card or a book, though.

Has the buyer sent you the link they were given on the "Fee to pay" card or a picture of the card itself? 

[kath3735_wxmjn]

As a buyer i was given the run around with the seller arguing about how the postage was right etc and first of all wanted me to pay it, then offered to pay half (excess was £3.50).  After travelling 7 miles each way to the local depot (i only go into town every couple of months for an appointment) i could see the parcel was too large.  She wanted me to do all the arguing with the RM when it was clearly her or the PO at fault.  Anyway i just told them to return it to her because i was not paying it.  Only a small value item and it would have meant paying twice the amount of postage i should have.  She had used a much too big a box for a pair of sandals.  As a seller i would just have sent a refund for the amount and put it down to experience.  (she is now on my blocked list as well) 

[dch2112011]

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@023tortoise2009 wrote:
I paid online but checked and put through at post office! They scam off and
weigh it again! It was card so I know it was fine and as I said hubby uses
these envelopes every week as bought as large letter size for a book and
the item I sold wasn’t the thickness of his usual book!!!!

You certainly carried out due dilligence - there is a but - the post office is a seperate company from Royal Mail and even the post paid for and put in the sacks by the post office used to be spot checked - an item in every sack - if the post office sold the postage and handled it - they were liable for any errors.

Unfortunately you are liable for any errors on postage you bought online - even though the post office checked it - the new systems RM are using is scanning as post passes through the sorting machines - new machines which mean more and more items are being caught - I have not the full information as to how many new machines are in operation nor whether a folded corner of an envelope sticking up would cause an oversize issue but what is obvious is that many more packages are having excess charges applied.

The buyer has no responsibility to raise a query with RM - you are solely responsible for the postage and delivery  -  imagine if you received a fine for an item you ordered because the postage was incorrect - would you really say to the buyer - my fault I will raise the issue with the carrier - somehow I think you would be rightly annoyed with the seller.

[robbtyke132010]

Royal Mail actually allow a lttle discretion when it comes to postage & packing - it must have either been too bulky or too heavy by some margin before an extra charge kicks in...

[jokers_toybox]

You're responsible sadly, as you have a contract with the buyer to deliver the item they paid for.

So yeah, you should pay 100% of the time in those cases because it's your fault for not applying the correct postage.

This is also happening a lt with people using the out of date stamps without a barcode

[4_bathrooms]

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@robbtyke132010 wrote:

Royal Mail actually allow a lttle discretion when it comes to postage & packing

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In my experience they have zero tolerance for anything remotely overweight or oversize; they measure to the gram or millimetre. For example; a Large Letter can be 35.3cm x 25cm x 2.5cm - if the long side is 35.4cm they'll typically surcharge for Small Parcel.

Sellers with business accounts often post about random surcharges on their accounts despite sending out hundreds of identical items that are always the same size and weight. There have been many recent reports where affected sellers have successfully appealed against these surcharges so perhaps Royal Mail's Revenue Protection (Racket) Department have turned their attention to RM's retail services.

The problem with the "Fee to pay" cards is there doesn't appear to be any way to appeal them. The recipient receives the card telling them unless they (or someone else) pays the fee they aren't getting their item. The seller can pay the fee on the buyer's behalf but shouldn't have to if they have a CoP from a Post Office counter. The PO counter has accurately calibrated scales and a letter guide supplied by Royal Mail themselves - even though they're separate companies now you couldn't ask for better proof the item was the size and weight declared on the label.  

In @023tortoise2009 's shoes I would have requested the link on the "Fee to pay" card to pay the charge myself then take it up with Royal Mail. If the buyer refused to provide the link and/or a picture of the "Fee to pay" card - and the tracking also didn't indicate a problem - simply put I wouldn't believe the buyer's claim.  

[direct.gifts]

You are responsible. The buyer has had a poor experience and should get a refund for surcharge. It is one of those random expenses we all get now and again, it is part of running a business.

Sometimes Royal Mail declare an item over size and apply a surcharge even when the item is within the correct tolerance. Their machines are not 100% accurate and sometimes items fold or get stuck to other items which causes a surcharge.

Having a business account with RM helps in these type of situations as the surcharge is charged directly to your account and the buyer never knows about it. You then have the option of fighting the surcharge with Royal Mail if you believe the surcharge is wrong.

[4_bathrooms]

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@direct.gifts wrote:

You are responsible. The buyer has had a poor experience and should get a refund for surcharge.

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I'm not the person with the issue - that's another poster (023tortoise2009). They're a private seller so wouldn't have a Royal Mail business account.

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@direct.gifts wrote:

Sometimes Royal Mail declare an item over size and apply a surcharge even when the item is within the correct tolerance. Their machines are not 100% accurate and sometimes items fold or get stuck to other items which causes a surcharge.

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Then they should get machines that are at the very least 99.99% accurate if they're going to surcharge for any perceived infraction of their limits. I have a tape measure that is EC Class II - the vast majority of tape measures purchased in shops meet this standard. A Class II tape measure is accurate to 2.3mm over 10m - i.e. an accuracy of 99.98%. The scales Post Office counters use must be calibrated to strict standards and are regularly tested (at least annually) to ensure they're calibrated correctly. Even a Class III set of scales - the minimum standard for use in trade and retail - are 99.99% accurate at a minimum (0.5g increments with a 5kg capacity). 

Royal Mail lost the bulk of the business I was giving them years ago. I'm not prepared to fight their Revenue Protection (Racket) Department - it is far more economical for me to pay the extra pennies for a courier that has never applied any such surcharge. In fact, the only surcharge I have received in the last 2 years was from Parcelforce (part of Royal Mail) - I only used them because a customer asked me to and was willing to pay the extra cost. The surcharge wasn't because they deemed the parcel to be oversize or overweight - apparently it required "manual handling" at some point during it's journey (I did successfully appeal the charge).  

[kath3735_wxmjn]

in my case i sent the seller a copy of the card immediately i notified them of the discrepancy.  I was lucky though because i went into town and discovered that the office is only open for two hours in the morning and i was just in time.  My dealings may not have been so tempered with the seller if i had wasted my time, effort and petrol for it to be closed.  The guy did say that it was the center at Leeds that do all the checking so i assume they have the new machines as there was a queue of people!

[dch2112011]

The problem with fee to pay cards are they do not identify what is in the fee to pay package or the sender - so human nature  is to pay the fee and receive the package just in case it was important - it would take a visit to inspect the package to try and make a decision whether to receive it or not . 

I for one would pay and claim it back from the sender unless it was family.

[robbtyke132010]

Your eBay a/c is in a puplic domain - nobody needs permission to look at it.

[4_bathrooms]

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@dch2112011 wrote:

The problem with fee to pay cards are they do not identify what is in the fee to pay package or the sender

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I would assume after purchasing something if a "Fee to pay" card arrived the assumption would be it is the item that was purchased; for anything Large Letter or above RM's "tracking" may confirm that.

However, I don't understand how it's even legal for Royal Mail to do it. After all, it isn't a "fee" but a "fine" because either the sender or Royal Mail themselves have messed up. If it was a fee it would just be the outstanding postage that would be charged, not an additional amount on top. Those cards are also only issued when a retail service (i.e. not an account service) has been used - in the vast majority of cases the recipient is an innocent party but they are still expected to cough up even when Royal Mail know who the sender is. I really don't understand how they get away with it.