No refund from Paypal - Stolen Goods

[miseon100]

Dear eBay Community,

I hope you can provide us with assistance as I am running out of places to go.

I purchased an item on eBay on 26/4/20 for £300.00 and made payment via Paypal. On receiving the item on the 28/4/20. I called the manufacturer's of the item who confirmed that the item was stolen. The seller refuted these allegations.

The legal owners who are a well know reputable large organisation, reported the matter to the Police who instructed me to post it back to the rightful owners. I was advised by the Police that this was now an active investigation of stolen or the handling of stolen property.

I opened a dispute on Paypal and provided them with a summary of the incident as well as the crime complaint & incident numbers and the contact details for the investigating Police Officer. Paypal concluded the dispute and found in the sellers favour stating that I had provided insufficient information.

They said that I was required to provide a Police report and they stated what details they require the Police to produce. This request was forwarded to the investigating Police Officer (PO) as well as the legal owners of the item. Both parties provided comprehensive independent statements by email that could be verified by Paypal, but Paypal said that that information was still insufficient.

I then tried contacting the investigating PO again for a Police report, but I was informed that he was off sick and in his absence the duty PO explained that this was an active investigation and such information will never be released. They insisted that the normal protocol will be for the Police to provide the crime reference numbers and a brief summary and Paypal would contact them for further information and confirmation. The duty PO provided a brief statement for me with the relevant reference on headed paper, but Paypal  said that the information was insufficient and did not accept this.

The investigating PO returned on 16/5/20 and provided me with further information on headed paper, but now Paypal has said that the matter has been closed as this information I now provided was not produced within 10days of raising a challenge to the decision of the initial dispute.

During the beginning of this whole incident I contact eBay who said that as I have already raised a dispute via Paypal I couldn’t raise a dispute through eBay. If this is true do you know where this policy is documented on eBay? I want to take this matter to the small claims court. but I may be questioned if I am taking the right party being eBay or Paypal to court.

[redwick1]

Difficult to say for sure

If you opened a paypal dispute and sent the information asked for the I would check the paypal agreement and then put in a proper complaint

If they dont deal with it then take it on to the ombudsman which I believe paypal should have.

Yes it is true that you should open the ebay dispute first and if you fail you can move onto paypal

You had 30 days on ebay to open a dispute

Other than that try Citizens advice for their help but I dont know how easy it is to contact them at the moment

[john1297576]

I would have thought that you are in the same position as a person who finds a forged Banknote in their possession. If you do the proper thing and hand in to the Police you get a receipt and that is it. No one is going to compensate you.

If you have a claim against anyone I would think it is the seller, I don't see that either Ebay or Paypal are responsible.

You should get legal advice, or consult Citizens Advice, but at the end of the day I think you are the loser.

[1956glyn]

If someone is charged and found guilty ....then the court can order compensation orders

[ruby*tuesday]

To Receive a Refund on here with Ebay or PayPal you have to Return the Item using Tracked Postage within a certain time limit. Was your decision to send the Item somewhere else for investigation. You won't get anywhere with the Small Claims Court you signed up to Ebay's User Agreement when you clicked on Accept. 

[miseon100]

Thanks ruby*tuesday
The item was stolen, the Police instructed me to post it back to its rightful owner who is not the seller. The Police took a statement from me and the owner in the anticipation to arrest the seller. Would this not be a breach of contract in that the seller had no right over the item and therefore no right to sell the item on eBay? The action is against Paypal and not eBay as I was advised that you could only proceed with one of the companies. I just want to find out where that is written in eBay's policy

[miseon100]

Also once I reported the item as stolen eBay removed the function for me to return the item to the seller

[ruby*tuesday]

You could have Returned the Item through Ebay using "Item Not Authentic" as with PayPal too. By sending it back to the original owner you have nothing to Return. You can Checkout both EBay and PayPal's User Agreement from their Web Sites. However your claim should be with the Seller, not EBay or PayPal. They didn't Sell you anything.

[1956glyn]

miseon100 i would strongly suggest that you take appropriate legal advice from a qualified Solicitor.
This is not a usual straight forward not as described case. One thing i am surprised about is......the Police usually ask you to return the item to them so it can be used in evidence if there is any ongoing criminal case/investigation. As i say please take appropriate advice from a QUALIFIED Solicitor.

[plpmr]

“The item was stolen, the Police instructed me to post it back to its rightful owner who is not the seller.”

Totally the incorrect advice and not the proper and legal way to deal with 'stolen' goods. I do hope you have this in writing.

Do as 1956glyn advises and get legal advice.

[miseon100]

Thank you all for your advice, this is well appreciated. I have seek legal advice from Trading Standards and also a Solicitor. As I reported the item to eBay as being stolen, I was unable to return it using the "Item Not Authentic" as this option had been removed. I did question and had reservations mailing the item back to the original owners, but this was under the instruction of the Police and I have this in writing from both parties.