What do they teach them in schools?

[guardpig]

My son, who soaks up information like a sponge and is currently awaiting his degree results was a bit bored and browsing my bookshelves.  During a discussion it was discovered he didn't know who Caxton was and hat he was famous for.  Then he wanted to know who Samuel Pepys was.  Well they did some Tudor history for A levels and some modern and Georgian at secondary but.................................

Do you know who these people were and why they are famous(sort of).?

I thought history was boring at school because it was taught in a boring way. History today is supposed to be taught in a more exciting way that is more relevant to the students - son found it more than totally boring.  Not sure what the answer is but if we don't know where we came from we're going to find it difficult to understand where we are going, whether we should go where we are going and to avoid repeating past mistakes. Hmm.

[vamo48]

William Caxton set up the first printing press, and Samuel Pepys was a famous diarist (today he'd be a famous blogger!) History is taught with exams in mind, not making pupils interested.  When I was doing History GCE (yes, a long time ago) we were studying the American War of Independence, and I was not remotely interested in it.  In my own time, I was learning about the Wars of the Roses, because a teacher had mentioned "The Daughter of Time" by Josephine Tey,which started a lifelong interest. Just before the exams, I asked the teacher - If there are questions on the Wars of the Roses, could I answer them instead?" and she said "NO!" There were questions on that subject, as it happened, and had I answered them I would probably have passed, but I went with the American War, and failed the GCE. 

[chickengrandma-2008]

I knew both those answers, but not much more than who they were and what they did.  I hated history in school, but I think you pick many more facts up along life's path rather than in the classroom.

[fishpieface]

Totally agree with Chickengrandma here, far more important for youngsters to learn about life and what to expect from it (and what it expects from us), than about some bloke who wrote a diary about 500 years ago.

That said, to us, ie., adults, such facts are interesting but not particularly useful, to a teenager these things aren't very interesting and they have more important stuff to think about.  They don't see the significance, if any, to everyday life nowadays.

But these things have to be learnt and teaching seems much, much more "hands on" than it was even twenty years ago.  That in itself is likely to spark more interest in subjects that are generally considered rather boring and also the children are more likely to remember it.

[fishpieface]

Also, I guess if they taught them absolutely everything there is to know about a certain era, Tudors for instance, then they'd never finish, so they pick certain aspects of it that fit with the curriculum.  I would imagine that making lessons interative and interesting is much more time-consuming that just standing there drivelling on and writing reams of stuff on a blackboard like they used to.  So they wouldn't have time to research every aspect of a particular time in history, for instance, or everything geographical there is to know.

[merc1_clocks]

I'm reading Samuel Pepys Diary just now...albeit slowly!

Interestingly, May 30th 1664..they had still not had any warm weather, & it had rained every day...not much changes :-x

[bitsnknots]

I loved history at school.  What I was taught was about the forming of the trade unions and the industrial revolution.  I must admit, the forming of the trade unions was so boring.  Well, I thought so and so did the rest of class.

[bankhaunter]

During my school years I went through history starting with neanderthals in what was then known as the infants school and moving forwards through the centuries until reaching the 1900s just before GCE 'O' levels.

After that it wasn't history,  it was the news. 🙂

My last history teacher claimed he could get anyone a 'O' level pass in just two weeks teaching but he wouldn't do it as they would still know nothing about the subject.

[captainbovine]

we did Tudor history in junior school which started my life long interest in history. In secondary school I did social and economic history which was fab.

I totally agree with this poster...

by the way, we were discussing the war of the roses the other night....who won? was it the Lancastrians?:8}

[peteryola]

Yes, the house of Lancaster ( Henry VII ) defeated the House of York ( Richard III ).

Incidentally my Great12 grandfather on my mother's mother's side is mentioned in the history books.

[guardpig]

See all sorts of opinions:-).  The main point I was trying to make was that children need to learn something.  Remember one year in Secondary they were studying living conditions in mills in Birmingham. Interesting?  Hmm, maybe to the teacher.  It was a boy's school, they were bored.  At the same time as the mills in birmingham were grinding people into poverty and an early grave Nelson was winning at Trafalgar and Wellington at Waterloo.  Neither of these was mentioned, not the American War of Independance, the Slave Trade or the East India company all the same period. Totally out of context does nobody any good.

I am not saying Pepys and Caxton should have been studied in depth but mentioned. When I was at school; we did a quick gallop through of British history from 1066 to Boer War in 3 years before looking at depth into one period(medieval and all those loverley wars) for O level. The vast sweep probably covered most historical figures in passing.  It just seems a pity that today's children appear to have no knowledge of their history.  Especially with so many immigrants - their histories could also be included - was desperate to find out more about the European crusades when I was young(after reading a novel) but the library could offer no information and the internet didn't exist and my Grandad wasn't that old(even though we thought he was LOL).

Think my interest comes from having Grand parents born in 1880 and parents as old as some of my schoolmates Grand parents. The World has changed so much.

[bankhaunter]

You mean you haven't been watching the 'White Queen' on BBC1?

It was an interesting period along with the 100 years war, though it's really hard to say there was a clear winner more a case of the rise and fall of the differing parties.

[bankhaunter]

That was for #8.

It was Samuel Pepys who laid down the number of guns fired off for naval salutes, previously there was no set number and as an administrator to the navy, he was concerned at the cost of gunpowder.

[1311rose]

I was not that keen on history (the stuff before about 1750) at school, but now its a different matter.  I find it is so interesting and there are so many good programmes on the box on history.  The last few weeks the Tudor Time Line one was very interesting

[fishpieface]

Same here Rose, and that was part of what I was saying back in my posts up there.  I found history at school so very, very boring, it was by far my most hated subject.

However I now find history much more interesting and would find Samuel Peyps diary very interesting now.  I prefer history about places (which I guess is most of it as it all took place in places!), local history, not necessarily local to me but perhaps you know what I mean.  Today I'm not that good at expressing what I mean!

I've found it more interesting as I've seen what my son's studying and have been amazed at how much I actually remember, whether from school I'm not sure, but some of it must sink in!

[023mjc]

I loved history at school and still do.

I read all the books and watch all the programs - both fact and fiction, and I've traced my own history (family tree) back to 1700.  I've hit a brick wall there but will keep trying as I'd love to go back further.

I like to imagine what they wore and what they ate and the work they did. I've found out some really interesting stuff about my ancestors and dug one or two skeletons out of the cupboard too.

I wish I could talk to them. They all made me who I am.

[lhasa.two]

Oh dear, I think I'm about to have a little rant... :^O

History shapes us culturally geographically and legally so it's important to know and understand it.

Samuel Pepys diary is fascinating. It ranges from private remarks to detailed observations of events in 17th century England - such as the plague of 1665, the Great Fire of London and Charles II's coronation - and some of the key figures of the time, including Sir Christopher Wren and Sir Isaac Newton.

Equally, Betty Friedan's book The Feminine Mystique (1963) paved the way for doors and laws to open for women that were otherwise closed. We all reap the benefits from people like her and they are part of our contemporary history.

History is about the significance of everyday life now, otherwise how do you know where you came from and what was done to reach this time? I can't for the life of me think that's boring!

If more children understood its significance perhaps they wouldn't hang their incredibly boring hats on TV programmes like The Voice and other useless talent shows all screaming for celebrity status without doing much for it!!! 

Blame the current education system for giving the "me" generation what they want, instead of teaching them history which they perhaps might not want to repeat! They could start with how our government is structured, then perhaps they would understand how our democracy works. 

After all, the saying that "history repeats itself" seems to be coming true in many areas of our lives but if we don't understand or know what went before, how will we know how to avoid the pitfalls...

[fishpieface]

Yes, Ihasa, that's what I know now.  But what I'm saying is through the eyes of a child/young person it isn't always like that.  We all know history shapes how we are now and our now is shaping the future, but that is of no consequence to youngesters, they don't understand how important it is.

I have also been researching my family tree, and what a job that is!  I find it fascinating. However I'd have hated the very thought of it as a schoolgirl.

I used to hate museums, but now find them (well, most of them) interesting.

We went in the new Seacity Museum in Southampton a few weeks ago, it's mostly about the Titanic and the people who were working/travelling on the ship and the families they had in Southampton.  An elderly relative of ours recorded part of the audio commentary for them - she remembers the newsboys running around the streets of the City telling the news of the sinking and of her mum baking hundreds of cakes for the crowds that gathered waiting for news and of herself helping carry them to the docks.  The Captain was a friend of her family and knew her father very well, they would sometimes walk their dogs together.  That kind of history is fascinating but probably more so for those who have a connection.

[lhasa.two]

I appreciate what you're saying fishy, but... children in a learning situation shouldn't - imv - have options or be allowed to get away with not learning important information when they are at school. It really doesn't matter what they want or like, it's what they need to know that counts and teachers/educators are responsible for providing that in the best possible way. I know that sounds pedagogic but the lack of it is showing up our youngsters as a pretty uneducated lot in comparison with other first world countries. We used to be top educationally but not any more and it's because we've given over too many rights to children and given teachers too much paperwork. I of course agree that children should have rights but not when it comes to education at secondary age. I'm not suggesting the curriculum should be all about history, just that it's important they have some deeper understanding of it.

When Labour came to power in '97 the mantra was "education education education". They failed miserably as far as I can see and I actually feel sorry for teachers who have had to put up with all the changes in recent years just to keep up with the paperwork trail. Education is about learning not form filling. 

Family history is fascinating, sounds like you are really enjoying it. 🙂

[guardpig]

Fishie!!!! You could have had a free coffee!!!!. Did you enjoy the Museum? They gave everybody in Southampton free tickets to the Museum but we didn't go because it was a free family ticket and only covered 2 and 3/4 adults not the 4 I'd have ended up paying for and visiting times were limited so there were only a few weeks the whole family would have been available to go en masse!.  None of us were that bothered anyway. 

Lhasa - children might not learn whet they are taught but they can only learn what they are taught.  If the Govt, teachers Unions, LEAs and some teachers choose what to teach then that is taught.

Remember in Juniors - dead boring "reading, writing and arithmetic" ad infinitum.  However we did do some local history about our own City, including questionnaires we had to go and look for the answers to()covered geography as well LOL. Odd knowledge comes in useful - my kids sometimes regret it.  Not sure son will forget when Mum dragged him off to look for the local statue of Lord Palmerston after he asked something about him!.