Jumping before they were pushed - ATOS

[al**bear]

So ATOS want out of their contact with the DWP to run the grossly unfair 'Fit for Work' program

They filled the media yesterday with stories of woe, about threats to staff etc, as  the reason they want out

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The Government and  especially Iain Duncan Smiths DWP are furious about the announcement

WHY ?

Because if you 'were in the know' , you already knew ( about 10 days ago) that IDS and the DWP, had a great Plan to save face and gain some street cred ( don't laugh at the back).

They were all ready to dump ATOS from this contract, in a massive media jamboree and try to blame ATOS (yes they deserve blame, but not all of it) for ALL the ills of this despicable scheme, in an attempt to keep the spotlight off, more failures with the new Universal credit roll out and the continuing onslaught from Charities, Church People and even some of their own MPs on this vote loser.

So looks like the leak from inside the DWP reached ATOS Boardroom, as well as campaigners

And they decided to jump before they were pushed, I've heard IDS is apoplectic, they stole his thunder

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It is despicable that Cameron, IDS, Osborne and others are deflecting criticisms on their cuts to Benefits by saying Universal Credit will cover the cuts, it might do, but it will be years before it is in place and, the harm to the poorest is happening NOW

rant over

[bitsnknots]

Politicians will never blame themselves.  However, ATOS were brought in by the previous government in 2008 but IDS has definitely made the whole situation worse as I know from personal experience.  If they bring another firm in, they will only be as bad as ATOS because they will be the government's puppets like ATOS are.

10,600 people committed suicide in the first 11 months of 2011 due to ATOS.

One doctor resigned and blew the whistle on what actually happened at ATOS.  His name is Dr Greg Wood.

ATOS, the DWP and the appeals tribunal service all lie throug their teeth.  

And also, it isn't doctors who say when someone is fit for work - it's the law!!!!

[aernethril]

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@bitsnknots wrote:

Politicians will never blame themselves.  However, ATOS were brought in by the previous government in 2008 but IDS has definitely made the whole situation worse as I know from personal experience.  If they bring another firm in, they will only be as bad as ATOS because they will be the government's puppets like ATOS are.

10,600 people committed suicide in the first 11 months of 2011 due to ATOS.

One doctor resigned and blew the whistle on what actually happened at ATOS.  His name is Dr Greg Wood.

ATOS, the DWP and the appeals tribunal service all lie throug their teeth.  

And also, it isn't doctors who say when someone is fit for work - it's the law!!!!

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I don't think the numbers on suicides are correct as the total number is just over 6000 for the whole year, without knowing the reason in every case by a long way.

I do agree that the next company are likely to be far far worse as all loopholes and chances of whistleblowing, transparency etc will be very firmly closed.

The appeals tribunal do not seem to necessarily be as bad as they are consistently upholding a fair number of appeals - I think it's around 40%.

[bitsnknots]

I'd seen the figures somewhere on the internet regarding the number of suicides.  When I went for a tribunal hearing, they said I drove to a town about an hours drive a way from where I live and I am supposed to have done that several times a week.  I've been driving since 1978 and I've never, ever driven to that town once.  That was one of many mistakes in the report but I couldn't appeal as conveniently, not one mistake was on a point of law.  Also, I think it depends what part of the country you live in as to the percentage of appeals upheld at a tribunal hearing.  For example, in southeast England, the percentage is around 40% and northwest England, it's as low as 31%.  

[bitsnknots]

According to Wikipedia, around 10,600 people died within six weeks of their benefits being affected after being for a Work Capability Assessment.

[aernethril]

But the figures for suicides comes from the Samaritans website - so even if they are a bit out, there is no way of knowing how many of those were due to ATOS.

And the number of people who may or may not have died is not the same as committing suicide, nor do I believe it is as a result of having their benefits affected.

I don't agree with the terrible damage and ruin to people's livelihoods that this wicked scheme has caused.  But it is important to get facts right.

[ginap.123]

there does need to be something in place though. Daughters ex, 36 yrs old, never worked since leaving school. Continues to claim on the grounds if depression (& before anyone claims it is a genuine illness, I do know that as I suffer myself & only manage to get through a 40 working week with the help of anti-depressants), his doctors just continues to sign forms for him & he comes away taking the pee out of the system & workers, who he claims 'are meant to work to support him'. He's even offered to tell others what they need to say & do to get thier doctor to sign them off sick. So for people like him, there needs to be a system In place, what it should be, I don't know, but we can't afford to continully give money to these extremely 'well sick' who are just good at acting and lying.

[rose2008-2008]

I have gone through Depression and other illness when i probably could have gone sick. I know some people who dont work but it really does not seem as if there is anything wrong?. I really cannot see how they get away with it and yet people say the paperwork and forms you fill out is very thorough. As far as im concerned it CANNOT BE!!!!!!!!!. I struggle with illness and can only work so many hours before i feel ill but dare not go for longer term sick as im sure they would not except it. I struggle with the money i do earn and people go around with loads and loads of money they are getting on the sick,,,walking round town treating themselves to this that and the other,,having days out ect. I know people like this,IT MAKES ME SICK. Something should be done about it. 

[captainbovine]

here here Rose I'm with you there.

somehting should be done about long term sickness i.e. depression. The longer you are out of the work force the harder it is to integrate again. I'm sure there are lots of jobs that could be done in smaller groups so these people could meet up somewhere in dept of employment offices and work IYKWIM.

the unemployed should be made to do voluntary work too, it's not only just about making them pay for their benefits, it's to keep the work ethic alive, it's so easy to just lounge about the house and collect money for doing nothing.

[saasher2012]

I also agree , let them sort out the scroungers & in doing so really help the people who need it , they suffer because of these people, & I'm sure they would also like to contribute but because they genuinely cannot they are being lumped in the same bag. Great shame. IMO.

[rose2008-2008]

Yes CB,,,,i know there are people who are genuine and they are ill. I agree what you say about the smaller groups,,its not so intimidating and would not be so stressful. There are a lot of things they could do if they want people working. They could work from home on the computer???,,why not have schemes where they do this. They are paying people to do nothing so they can pay towards organizing something like working from home then!!. For people with Depression or social issues it would be ideal!!.

[bankhaunter]

The largest proportion of benefit  by a long way is paid to people in work on low incomes, the idea that a huge proportion is paid out to non working scroungers is simply not true.

[saasher2012]

I didn't know that!

[pippy_l]

I frequently hear folks say that there should be a crackdown on the scroungers, but as soon as an attempt is made to do this, there are even more complaints!

I have supported over 100 disabled people at face to face interviews with ATOS, some with physical disabilities, some with learning disabilities, some with both. On every occasion the ATOS staff have been considerate and professional, always meeting any need that we identified prior to the appointment. They have been far from being "jobsworths" and have bent the rules to fit individual needs on numerous occasions. Where it has been appropriate they have done home visits, or have held interviews at a place where the disabled person felt safe and comfortable.

Every claim has been dealt with efficiently and processed quickly. The job that ATOS were tasked to carry out was far from being an easy one, and whoever had been tasked with the job would have faced similar problems in carrying it out.

I have heard a lot of criticism of both ATOS and of the government policy, but I have seen and heard almost no positive suggestions as to how the abuse of the benefit system could be better tackled.

It all comes down to individual motivation and work ethic. We have one member of staff who carried on her normal duties whilst a hospital in-patient. This went on for months - she arrived at work in an ambulance, and was collected by ambulance at the end of the day. The consultant accepted that her being occupied actually helped her recovery, helped her to manage her pain levels and helped her to maintain a positive mental attitude. This lady has been through multiple operations, but still comes to work whenever she can, using the flexitime system to "bank" hours when she is reasonably well, to offset the times when she is not well enough to work. She is one of the organisation's most knowledgeable staff members and is very highly thought of by clients.

Unfortunately though there is still an attitude in quite a number of people with relatively minor disabilities that they should not be expected to put themselves out and look at what work they can do, but that they should just be supported by the state. There is help and support available, if people bother to look for it, and there is work available if people really look at what they CAN do. I recently worked with a young lady with spina bifida, a young lady who has very significant physical disabilities, but a lovely speaking voice - she is now employed as an audio erotic performer and loves it.

Our reception is manned by two gentleman on a rota basis - both are wheelchair users, but this does not affect their ability to deal with visitors, with phone calls, with post etc.

Employers do have a role to play - they need to actively think how they can integrate those with illness and disabilities into the workplace. It is far too easy to just see the walking sticks, the hearing aid or the wheelchair and to just consider the difficulties instead of looking at what that candidate has to offer!

[aernethril]

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@bankhaunter wrote:

The largest proportion of benefit  by a long way is paid to people in work on low incomes, the idea that a huge proportion is paid out to non working scroungers is simply not true.

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This is quite true but not what the Govt wants to push.

The problem is always a disproportionate one - those who do play the system are relatively few but seem to get away with shed loads they should simply not have and spread the anger towards all claimants from those who adopt the moral high ground.

Another 'good' wangle is 'back problems' - for those who genuinely suffer from a condition that often cannot be clearly identified, it is both painful and depressing.  However there are ways to manage the pain and genuine sufferers are more likely to want to try anything to stop the pain and get back to a normal life.

I've known so many who use it for a long term 'get-out-of-work' clause without making any effort to get well, and it is totally wrong.  And those who do genuinely suffer are then tarred with the same brush - all too often considered scroungers.

But equally, the GPs are to blame in not ensuring that their patients are fit for work or are receiving treatment that will help them get back to work where applicable.

On the flip side, those who really struggle to cope with work but would love to do something are targetted but all too often have no help in actually finding a job they can manage or be supported in.  Funding to give support is slashed, if not completely removed.

And still a huge number of those out of work long time live in areas where there is literally no work to be found.  Promised business and job creation in their areas just never materialises. 

The system needs a radical overhaul with the funding put in the right place, not in the hands of private companies whose only real responsibility is to their shareholders and their own pockets.

[bitsnknots]

I know of one person who supposedly has a bad back and she is erm like a woman of the night if you know what I mean.  She has been through the ATOS system and placed in the support group!!  I also know someone else who is 50, perfectly fit and well and she has never worked a day in her life.  That sort of thing really annoys me.  These two are could quited easily find work of some sort and yet they want everything handed to them on a plate.

[aernethril]

No wonder she has a 'bad back' - but all she needs to do is go legit - declare her earnings, pay tax and NI, deduct her expenses such as her tools of the trade and she'll be fine.

[bitsnknots]

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@aernethril wrote:

No wonder she has a 'bad back' - but all she needs to do is go legit - declare her earnings, pay tax and NI, deduct her expenses such as her tools of the trade and she'll be fine.

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[bitsnknots]

Just remembered that one the men she's with is her ex.

[artisanone11]

The largest proportion of benefit  by a long way is paid to people in work on low incomes, the idea that a huge proportion is paid out to non working scroungers is simply not true.

This is quite true but not what the Govt wants to push.

Both hit the nail on the head.

This government works on divide and rule. It’s done an excellent job of it.

Atos is just one of their tools.

 It isn’t scroungers that are to blame for genuinely disabled and sick people being tarred with the same brush as scroungers. It’s the people holding the brush and doing the tarring.