The Linux Distro Thread (maybe)

Thought I'd start this one off, rather than continue on another thread.

As a quick catch up for others:

Have a look at Unetbootin, as a means to try out different versions of Linux, without producing numerous coasters (unwanted CDs).
I haven't tried the method of installing to hard drive, only the USB flash drive method (so far).



(c) E Jonsen
Just skimming the surface

Opinions/guidance expressed are intended to benefit the reader (mostly) but no responsibility should be assumed for the accuracy and no warranty is implied/expressed or given - so eBay may pull this post
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The Linux Distro Thread (maybe)

That's interesting, Grumps. I have never heard of a Linux version of voice recognition software.

I'll have a decko at your link but I think that may be the way to go.

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Well I've installed Palaver (I remembered my webcam had a mic) and it works. I managed to type "The quick brown fox...." into a document after a bit of trial and error. Not got time to play with it now, but will in due course.

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Grumps (or any other good bloke)...... Would you please go back to the previous page on this thread and take a peek at the post where I showed the specs for this laptop of mine, specifically the first bit about the CPU.

OK, I've got to the stage where I'm thinking of downloading Ubuntu but I hit a snag. I understand that there are 2 levels, 32bit and 64 bit, but which is mine? From that spec list it seems to be 64 bit but I thought I'd better ask 'cos knowing my luck, the details on that spec list will be about something totally different.

While I'm here, here comes another dumb question. Would I be better off downloading Ubuntu on to the laptop and installing it on to itself kind of thing or is it better to download Ubuntu on to a desktop and then making a bootable CD from the download?

Also, if I go with Option 1, will the current OS on the laptop be automatically erased?

I told you I was thick, lol

Cheers,

Steve.

 

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Your spec is fine for 64-bit and it's probably best to go for that these days. You might also consider one of the Ubuntu based distros such as Mint or Zorin (which I use at present). Why not download live versions of all three then you can burn them to cd/dvd and see which you like best before you install one.

 

You have a choice of if to dual-boot alongside Windows or not - my take is that it can get messy, but I've only done it once years ago, so perhaps OE would care to comment as I think he has more recent experience.

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Would I be better off downloading Ubuntu on to the laptop and installing it on to itself kind of thing or is it better to download Ubuntu on to a desktop and then making a bootable CD from the download?

 

The bootable CD is the way to go, I think. Not sure how you'd do the other - although a program called WUBI allows you to run Ubuntu as a sort-of program within your Windows installation. I tried it once and lost patience with it - probably OK for a quick try out, but not much more, IMHO - but thousands of others would disagree.

 

One of the nice things about most Linux distros is that the CD you burn allows you to run the distro directly from that CD - albeit slowly - which I find a good way of finding out whether a particular distro will get on with a particular computer.

 

The distro is downloaded as an .iso file (International Standards Organisation 9660, I think) - you now know as much about it as I do. It needs to be burned as an image, not as a data disc. But I suspect you already knew that.

 


Also, if I go with Option 1, will the current OS on the laptop be automatically erased?


Entirely optional.

 

Most of my computers dual boot Windows and Linux. I'm not quite sure why I bother, but suspect a certain innate tight-fistedness caution makes me reluctant to bin the paid-for rubbish high quality software.

 

Generally speaking, dual booting a modern Linux distro with an existing Windows installation is a doddle. There are a few traps and pitfalls, not helped by the fact that the Linux installer and the way it deals with partitions insists on varying from one distro to another, and from one version of a distro to another.

 

I think the current Ubuntu-based installers offer you the option to install alongside Windows, and then just do it for you if you select that option.  I've not tried this, but it might be a convenient solution. Presumably the installer decides how much space to allocate each system, and this might not suit.

 

They also offer "something else," which involves manually resizing and creating partitions. Sounds tricky, but it's actually very easy. Especially after the first time or three.

 

Never any guarantees, so to make sure the whole remains fun, save any data you'd hate to lose and make sure you have the reinstallation media for the original software to hand.

 

A couple of suggestions thereafter:

 

Before anything else, defragment your Windows system to within an inch of its life. I'd go for at least three passes with the Windows degragmentation utility. Probably not a good time to use fancy degrag/optimisation programs. You just want to get all the Windows stuff snuggled up cosily to itself before the Windows partition is shrunk.

 

Try to find a tutorial on the internet detailing the installation of your chosen distro, with particular reference to dual-booting with Windows. Have it to hand on another computer while you work your way through the installation.

 

Once it's complete, remember that the Linux system will be able to read files on the Windows partition (except for W8 - long story.) This means that you could fire up your XP, update security software, get it OFF the internet, dictate your novel on your Windows-friendly software or whatever, save all the text and then shut down Windows. Fire up Linux, "mount" (don't worry; perfectly polite) the Windows partition containing your opus, and copy it to the Linux side for further editing and internet stuff. I assume it would be helpful if your Windows speech-to-text software could save to LibreOffice/OpenOffice, although these should cope with simple Word files.

 

I'll try to find more gen; in the final analysis, though, dual booting Linux and Windows is not something restricted to experts any more. Just plan for it all to go horribly wrong the first time to be on the safe side; it gets easier as you figure out just what the installer is trying to tell you.

 

 

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Hi, again, Steve.

 

I have to concede that I'm battling to find anything that doesn't make the simple task of dual-booting a modern Linux distro and WXP look really complex. Perhaps using pure Google rather than StartPage might help.

 

A couple you might find useful:

 

http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/dual-boot-windows-7-ubuntu.html

 

goes into a fair amount of detail. Slightly odd - he's using an elderly version of Ubuntu, but never mind - gives a good idea of its partitioner, and of the GParted alternative.

 

Vista (= W7 for our purposes) doesn't always take kindly to having its partition shrunk. In the past I've used a Vista DVD to repair the boot system - the tutorial shows another approach, which looks better to me.

 

XP is less cantankerous. I said last night that you should defrag it within an inch of its life, and promptly found a guide which said defragging didn't help - but that a full disk check should be carried out. I tend to assume that one would carry out a chkdsk prior to defragging, and would tend to do both. (The only problem I've had so far with XP/Linux happened when I didn't bother defragging XP. Now watch all my attempts from here on go pear-shaped.)

 

Remember that you can run useful apps like the GParted partitioner directly from the live Linux CD/DVD.

 

My own sequence when I dual boot XP on one of my eBay relics with a Linux distro:

 

Chkdsk (OK, OK, sorry I said nothing about this earlier) and thoroughly defragment WXP.

 

Fire up the Linux live CD. (Or DVD - most of them are too big to fit on CDs now. You know what I mean.)

 

Launch GParted from the live CD. Following Igor's instructions in the above link, shrink the WXP partition until you have whatever space you want to use for Linux. I tend to do partitions one at a time; never tried Igor's trick of setting up all the new partitions in advance then telling GParted to do its thing. As you prefer.

 

In the "unallocated" space which GParted then shows on your drive (everything to the right of the shrunken Windows partition), create the partitions you want for Linux. Windows needs a primary partition to boot from; Linux will boot from just about anything. (Google for more info if required.) One hard drive can only hold four primary partitions. Having shrunk the Windows partition/s (W7 etc waste partitions horribly with the system partition, etc etc, all labelled primary by default), I make the whole of the rest of the drive an "extended" partition. This counts as one primary partition.

 

Within the extended partition, I set up my Linux system's partitions. I like to have a / (root) partition for the system files, a /home partition for my user stuff, and a swap partition.

 

This is unnecessarily fiddly most of the time, though, and you can leave out the /home partition. Just create a / partition (nah, I've no idea why they use "/") and a swap partition. Saves you trying to guess how much space the system will need.

 

Linux uses swap much as Windows uses the page file. It also uses it for hibernation, so if you plan to hibernate, it should be at least as big as your RAM - plus a few MB for luck.

 

An example.

 

Let's say you have a 250 GB hard drive. GParted will read this as about 232 GiB. Chkdsk and defrag. Shrink the Windows partition. If in doubt, just give it about half the drive - worth doing a little thinking about this, as resizing partitions once everything's installed can take an age

 

Let's say, then - shrink your Windows NTFS partition to about 116 GiB. (If your Acer has a "hidden" recovery partition and you've not burned recovery disks, leave it alone - another primary partition wasted *sigh*).

 

You've 2GB of RAM, so you want to leave 2GB for the swap partition. to the right of your newly shrunk Windows partition, create a 114 GiB (or whatever will leave a shade over 2GB/your RAM free) ext 4 partition - you choose this from GParted's menus; self explanatory. During installation, you'll mark this as / - I'm assuming you won't bother with separate / and /home partitions (quite wasteful on a small hard drive.)

 

In the remaining space, create your swap partition.

 

Now follow Igor's instructions to install Ubuntu/Mint/whatever - the setpup he shows is typical enought for you to be able to work out any little variations.

 

When you get to the partitioning choices, select "something else" or "manually allocate space" or whatever the partioner offers rather than simply choosing the default "install alongside Windows" or whatever it is, assuming you want to control the partitioning process yourself. (More on this later.)

 

Whilst you don't need to tell it to partition your / and swap partitions, you DO need to mark these partitions as / and as swap during the installer's partioning step. Simply click on the partition concerned to highlight it, click "edit" (actually, I think the current ones say "change" - easy to work out the details), tell it to use the partition concerned as ext4 or swap as appropriate using the drop down menus, detail the mount point (ie mark the ext4 partition / and the swap partition as, er, swap), and press on with the installation.

 

There's another tutorial here, if you can bear it:

 

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsDualBoot

 

With respect to the automatic partitioning choice - "Install them side by side" or whatever it is - I have to say I've not tried this. I've seen a number of comments advising against it, but with no really compelling reasons. If you have all your Windows reinstallation stuff, you might give it a try and let us know how it goes (it should give you the option to decide how much space to allow each installation - Windows and Linux.)

 

Sorry, Steve, it always ends up looking really complicated, when it isn't, really. Bit like riding a bicycle - easier to do than to describe, as long as one is willing to accept a few mishaps in the early stages.

 

If I find any clearer guides, I'll link to them. Getting towards my bed time now, though...

 

 

 

 

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Knew I'd done something like this recently - a laptop with the XP partition (which originally occupied the whole drive) reduced, and Linux Mint installed alongside.

 

You'll see that all the Linux stuff fits inside the extended partition - ie /, /home and swap all fit inside the extended partition.

 

To be honest, there's little merit in using separate / and /home partitions on a small drive unless you enjoy messing around planning for future changes - if you just have one ext4 partition and mark it /, then everything will appear on it (except swap).

 

The extended partition and its contents only count as one primary partition - maximum four of these per drive.

                              

 

 

 

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I just want to try inserting an image in the body of the post, having had a look throught the "Help" page:

 

xp-mint_partitions.jpg

 

Whether that's any help to Stevie, I dunno...

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As they used to say in days of yore ...... Ye Gods and little fishes!! .......... You have been busy, haven't you, OE?

Probably more info than anyone will ever need on this subject but I thank you for it and there are probably folk out there who will find your work invaluable.

 

Anyway .... the story so far.

I bought a Ubuntu 12.04 LTSdisc on an auction web site not all that far from here. This was the 64 bit version. 

I stuck it in the laptop's DVD drive and re-booted. I got asked questions about what I wanted to do, either try it out from the disc, install it alongside Windows XP or totally destroy XP and all of my files and have Ubuntu installed as the only OS. I was then asked about partition sizes which, to be honest, was a waste of time, mostly because there was no indication of which was which on the diagram. So I left it as it was and clicked the button to say, "Just get on with it."

The OS seems to have installed and I have been asked for my location on a map of the world followed by my version of keyboard layout. (English UK)

Next was a series of questions asking for a name, computer name, password etc. I did all those and the next screen showed a variety of images that would be associated with my name if the occasion demanded. The good news is that my laptop has a built in camera so I took a mug-shot and I'll use that. Next up was a screen showing all the advantages of Ubuntu and the brill programmes that are included.

 

Wouldn't you know it?

I have to shut this Mac down now. The install is still going on the laptop so no worries there. I'll let you know what happened when I get back.

Cheers,

Steve.

 

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Must say, if you've nothing too valuable on an older computer, then the easiest way of getting the hang of all this Linux stuff is simply to play around with it and see what happens.

 

If you want to try other distros, it's probably easier and quicker to just download the appropriate iso from a reputable site and burn it to a DVD or use Unetbootin to put it on a USB flash drive than to buy it. Nice to see some support for people who're flogging Linux DVDs, though.

 

Looking forward to hearing how you get on!

 

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It looks as if the medibuntu repository no longer exists.

 

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r28727679-Medibuntu-Deprectated

 

http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=147183

 

It's evidently been unsupported for some time. I assume it has only recently been withdrawn, as it's only in the past week or so that I've been pestered by update manager problems of the "could not fetch.."/ 404 not found variety. I initially assumed it was one of those glitches which occasionally afflicts individual repos and is best dealt with by ignoring it until the problem was resolved, but this turned out to be more permanent.

 

Simply unticking anything medibuntu-related from Synaptics list of "Other software" (only one line in my case) seemed to get the Update Manager working happily again.

 

My system is Mint 13; I gather newer versions didn't include the medibuntu repos by default.

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I must admit a failing now. I'm not much into, "Fiddle around with it and see what happens." At least that's true with anything computer related. I'm more the kind of guy that wants to switch it on ond then be productive with it. Being productive doesn't always mean work. As far as I'm concerned, I'm being productive if I make the computer tell me a story from an audio CD, lol

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That makes a lot of sense to me, Steve.

 

It's probably difficult to avoid the odd bother with any unfamiliar system, though. If someone's only used Linux, they'd probably be just as confused getting the hang of Windows or Mac OS as the other way round.

 

I know one can always RTM (if there is a manual), but sometimes it's just quicker and more fun to try it out.

 

All a matter of context - as an approach to learning, the "just play around with it" is arguably better suited to computers than learning, say, to ride a motor bike or fly a 747.

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Have been meaning to post this link [as below] - may be of intrest to some.

I had problems at the beginning of the the month and found this site.

http://www.isitdownrightnow.com/virtualbox.org.html

 

[ iidrn.com]

Others, it seems were also having probs according to some comments - see screenshot.

------------------------------

VB_Comments.jpg

 

--------------------------------------

 

The Current status being:-

 

VB_Down01.jpg

 

Seems the site could be very useful - including this site!!   Smiley LOL

Oxie...

 

 

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A useful site, indeed. But how could you be so unkind as to suggest that this particular site might occasionally have little difficulties?

 

Interesting article in el Reg this evening:

 

http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2013/12/03/parliament_heads_for_ms/

 

I'd have thought governments would be wary about committing all their data (and at least some of their data processing???) to the cloud. Guess I'm wrong again.

 

It does sometimes look as if Linux-based distros and GNU applications could be used by governments (not to mention everybody else.) So far, the French gendarmerie seems to be making great strides in shifting to Ubuntu. Let's hope it works out for them. An interesting presentation by one of their top brass:

 

http://www.eventolinux.org/images/el2013_apresentacao-stephanedumond.pdf.pdf        (in English.)

 

It seems that substantial financial savings have already been realised, but what I found more significant is the comment about far less support being needed. It doesn't seem to go wrong so often as its predecessor.

 

I got that link from this article:

 

http://www.zdnet.com/french-police-move-from-windows-to-ubuntu-linux-7000021479/

 

which also mentions Munich's increasing reliance on Ubuntu and LibreOffice:

 

https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/community/osor/news/city-munich-migration-sustainable-desktop-completed-...

 

The success of these large organisations to date suggests that problems such as compatibility with other people's software might not be that insurmountable. (One could always send them a copy of LibreOffice to install for nothing, but I'd imagine this could lead to much hand-wringing over testing and maintaining and so on in some quarters.)

 

Probably zero chance of GNU/Linux making much headway in government or industry in the near future, but the possibilities remain intriguing.

 

Assuming a large scale shift to GNU/Linux to be desirable - as I believe it to be - the imminent loss of support for windows XP seems to offer an uprecedented opportunity to encourage people/organisations to make the change. Ubuntu/Mint/Whatever will probably run happily on much of the equipment scheduled to be binned when organisations update to W8.

 

Bet nothing happens.

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With a couple of folk starting to show an interest in the "Linux alternative," might it be useful for Linux users to resume comparing favourite distros here? I'm thinking specifically of beginner-friendly replacements for Windows XP. With the impending demise of that system and the fact that there still seem folk (like me, botheration) taking financial strain, it would be useful to offer helpful suggestions to keep old hardware creaking along a little longer.

 

My personal favourite remains Linux Mint. A Long Term Support/LTS version would probably be most suitable, although I really like what little I've seen of Mint 16. (Yep, I personally use beginner-friendly distros cos I'm not too clever with these things - but thanks to GNU/Linux, I now find computers and stuff interesting and plain good fun.)

 

I recently installed a recent download of PCLinuxOS to my cantankerous old Fujitsu Siemens V5535. One of this computer's big problems with GNU/Linux is its SiS chipset (671 or 672, I think.) SiS never did produce a Linux driver, and I spent a very interesting couple of days getting the graphics working on Mint 7 (I think) - someone - I think it was an SiS employee - came up with a 2D driver, which worked fine. Normal people lost interest in the V5535 about then, so I didn't even try Mint 13 - beyond establishing that it still battled with the dreaded SiS chipset.

 

Mint 7 on that machine was, in any case, replaced with PCLinuxOS ages ago. It was the GNOME version, and on firing the machine up for the first time in a couple of years, it appeared that that was no longer supported.

 

I tried the latest download and, touch wood, it works very nicely indeed. I've always found KDE a little slower on my old machines, but it's really not bad at all. So - for machinery with driver problems, PCLOS could be a winner.

 

I honestly don't think it's quite as simple to use as Mint, but that could simply be because I'm unfamiliar with it. The partitioner definitely struck me as potentially a little more risky for a first-timer - but fine if one simply avoids any "advanced" options throughout the installation. I think.

 

Zorin is often spoken of as something which ex Windows users find easy to use, but the cantankerous old 5535 really struggled with the live CD - much flickering and things appearing and disappearing and really quite unuseable. Honestly not convinced it offers anything over Mint, even for Windows refugees, but I hope to give it a try on more welcoming hardware.

 

One of the huge hassles facing potential Linux users is the overwhelming volume of choice. The advice one finds on the internet can also be offputting. Well-intentioned advisers say that a particular distro runs fine on their "ancient" laptop - which turns out to have a multi core CPU and four or eight gig of RAM. I suspect a lot of first timers will be interested in what runs acceptably on something with a Pentium 4 (or even 3) and half a gig of RAM.

 

The experts tend to advise owners of kit like that to a) invest in a new computer, which is just what they're trying to avoid or  b) try one of the lightweight distros. These can be great, but are invariably a little more challenging. (Must try AntiX again - always really impressed me in the past...) And a number of mainstream distros will run adequately, if not stunningly, on a lot of older kit .

 

I suspect that something like Mint or PCLOS (or even Ubuntu - which I've not used in a while) would suit most newcomers better than, say, AntiX or Slitaz or Puppy - no matter how much fun the same newcomers can have with those and similar distros a little later in their careers, once they've gained a little confidence.

 

Waffling again.

 

But perhaps folk could start contributing suggestions for suitable first distros for potential new users, to try to help narrow down that massive choice.

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I've been using Zorin for about a year and would recommend it to a new switcher to at least have a look at. Having said that, mine bears little relation to what I first installed because I've cusomised it quite a lot and the desktop and launchers are completely different now.

 

Q4OS probably deserves a look because, well, it's XP. Unfortunately, it's still in beta, but worth watching.

 

 

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Time for a closer look at Zorin, then. The trusty old Thinkpad T23 seems to have handed in its meal ticket, but I managed to get Mint onto an old Toshiba L100 (or something) earlier in the week. I'll try Zorin on that.

 

Q4OS does look interesting. Having said that, I'm not 100% sure about introducing folk to Linux via distros that look just like Windows. Mint still strikes me as a happy medium between familiar enough - but remember that this really ain't Windows (but something rather better...)

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Interesting article in today's Register:

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/01/30/uk_picks_open_document_format_for_all_government_files/

 

It would make huge sense for me for governments to head towards everything public being open source/open document format. This would save Joe Average having to buy the latest MS Office to gain access to online facilities. - but the ethical arguments are even more compelling.

 

Comments on the article referenced above include this link from 2002 (way back, in computing terms):

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/05/19/ms_in_peruvian_opensource_nightmare/

 

It seems that Peru was looking at going open-source, and that the local Microsoft rep had written to a government official and lawyer trying to persuade them that this was not a good idea.

 

I don't think I've ever seen a better-argued case for open-source software than the balanced, thoughtful and occasionally really quite amusing letter which followed. Not for the tl;dr crowd, but for those who can bring themselves to read anything longer than three lines. I can highly recommend it.

 

Just a couple of "tasters" (and yep, warned you it was long...):

 

The letter provides the most thoughtful and thorough rebuttal we've ever seen to Microsoft's standard open-source terror boilerplate. ®


It is also necessary to make it clear that the aim of the Bill we are discussing is not directly related to the amount of direct savings that can by made by using free software in state institutions. That is in any case a marginal aggregate value, but in no way is it the chief focus of the Bill. The basic principles which inspire the Bill are linked to the basic guarantees of a state of law, such as:

Free access to public information by the citizen.
Permanence of public data.
Security of the State and citizens...

....Our proposal brings further security, since the knowledge of the source code will eliminate the growing number of programs with *spy code*.

 

Pretty prescient - but I thought the general open-source advocacy even more impressive. I'm sure nobody would be amused by  his making MS and its "FUD" look decidedly silly in the process. Would they?

 

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Backing my computers up is not my strong point.

 

Does anyone know of a simple imaging program for Linux? I'm thinking along the lines of something like Macrium for Windows - lets you create an image of the whole system and data.

 

My last couple of tries with Remastersys weren't successful (the recovery DVD wouldn't boot - seemed to be searching for a non-existent partition, or something). Last time I looked, it was no longer supported, anway. I should take another look at Relinux - looked far too clever for me.

 

AptOnCD would help a little (updating a reinstallation and reinstalling all the apps), but depends on one not clearing the APT cache in order for everything to be saved. Guess how I found that out.

 

If anyone has a favourite and simple Linux imaging solution (I mostly use Mint), I'd be grateful to hear any suggestions and comments.

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