The Linux Distro Thread (maybe)

Thought I'd start this one off, rather than continue on another thread.

As a quick catch up for others:

Have a look at Unetbootin, as a means to try out different versions of Linux, without producing numerous coasters (unwanted CDs).
I haven't tried the method of installing to hard drive, only the USB flash drive method (so far).



(c) E Jonsen
Just skimming the surface

Opinions/guidance expressed are intended to benefit the reader (mostly) but no responsibility should be assumed for the accuracy and no warranty is implied/expressed or given - so eBay may pull this post
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The Linux Distro Thread (maybe)

Promising.



Still worrying that it depends upon a Microsoft-supplied key, but at least it'll give the open source community time to come up with something else.



I thought it was only ARM-based stuff that MS was insisting use UEFI, but I'm probably mistaken. Again. And given the apparently close relationship between some hardware manufacturers and the southern regions of Microsoft's alimentary canal, I suppose the infection will soon spread to other kit.


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Suggestions, please.



Off on hols in a few days time, and I thought I'd take an Eee PC 901 along - fits into overhead lockers, weighs next to nothing and not too expensive should anything go horribly wrong.



It's currently running Mint 12. Every large update - and since the poor thing is only turned on now and again, they tend to be large - triggers warnings about low disc space.



The 901's drive space is divided between two small SSDs. The "system drive" is (apparently) markedly the faster of the two; it is also only 4GB.



The second drive, currently used for data, is 16GB, and not that fast.



If I get round to it before leaving, I though I might update it to Mint 13. Since current distros are on the large size for the old Eee PC's little system drive, I wondered about using the 16GB drive for more than just /home. It would be nice to be able to do this as simply as possible ie whilst choosing mount points during the installation process.



I thought that placing /var on the larger drive might avoid the problem with low disc space on the smaller one, but may have misunderstood the function of /var. Is that where updating stuff goes? Would I be right in assuming that placing it on a slower drive should have little effect on everyday computing/speeds?



So - unless anyone says otherwise - I'll place /var on the larger (and slower) drive. Next question is - how large should it be? It needs its own partition, if I'm not mistaken.



Googling hasn't helped. People don't seem to have worried about this in the last ten years and suggestions from a decade ago seem to be that /var needs less than a quarter of a gig of space - which I don't believe to be the case any more. /var on this machine is currently using about 445MB, for instance.



With only 16GB available, it would seem excessive to give /var, say 5GB of space. It's highly unlikely but not impossible that I would copy a DVD to this machine - that would need about 4.3GB, plus the usual half a gig or so - if the /tmp files involved in copying the DVD were in /var - or are they written to /tmp?



And that's what I can't figure out - that the /tmp directory is a different matter, anyway. If I regard 5GB as the largest ever likely temporary space required, would I also need to give /tmp lots of space on the larger drive? In which case - would I get away with, say, 1GB for /var and 5GB for /tmp?



Apologies for the ignorance. More interesting than earth-changing, but it would be nice to get it right.



Sorry - usual waffling - what it boils down to is what, apart from /home, do you think I should put on the larger drive?


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For Arch (which I am currently using via Chakra) the recommendation is 8-12Gb for a /var partition. I think this does assume quite a bit of system growth through adding programs. I guess you will be keeping things lean on your little system and wouldn't need nearly as much..



https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Partitioning#.2Fvar

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I eventually shrank /home to allow space for a 2GB /var partition on the slower drive, prior to replacing Mint 12 with Mint 13 (fresh installation - I think I've only ever tried one Linux "upgrade" - too hard.)



So far, this seems to be working fine. The 4GB/3.72GiB system drive now has about 985MiB free space - a big deal on a drive that size.



/var was up to 820 MiB on completing updates - which would not have left much space (about 165MiB) had it been on the system drive. apt-get clean reduced the contents of/var to 337 MiB, and had no effect upon the system drive.



Seems to be working alright, so far.

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The little Eee PC behaved fine during my travels. I still prefer Mint 9, to be honest - but -13 is obviously going to be supported for a lot longer.



On my return a couple of weeks ago, I thought I should get the trusty desktops up to date. (I did this one - the ancient and almost invincible Dell GX260, with its CMOS battery sticky-taped to the motherboard and all, and still running Mint 9, on my return.)



Tonight, I got round to it.



Just for fun, I started up the Dell GX620 (stop laughing at the back - it's my most modern desktop - hyperthreading, even) with its Mint 13 and the old RM with WXP simultaneously.



In all fairness, the RM has even less steam than the Dell - 2.4GHz CPU compared with 2.8 HT; 1 GB of RAM cf 4.



By the time the XP desktop had finally finished loading into a restricted account, I was impatiently waiting to start the Mint updater on the other machine.



Told MSE to update on the RM; started Mint Update on the Dell. 155 updates, 192 MB. Yikes.



They'd been downloaded and installed before MSE finished its update.



I had to switch to the RM's admin account to update Comodo (restart) and persuade the internet time to update to GMT - I went away during BST. 26 windows updates waiting. *Sigh*



I've now had my dinner, updated the Dell's Firefox add-ons and surfed the internet, and shut the Dell down.



Windows is just finishing the 21st of 26 updates.



It will doubtless need a restart.



I shall have to check that Firefox is up to date (probably not - more than ten minutes since the current version was installed), and update its add-ons. Likewise Flash player. Hopefully I've removed Java previously.



And I should check other third-party apps, but maybe not tonight.



Windows easier for Joe Average to use than a modern, mainstream GNU/Linux distro?



As long as one sticks to stuff from the repositories and simply allows Mint or whatever to look after first and third-party updates - I would increasingly beg to differ.



(I'm aware of the hassles of non-compatible software needs and so on, many of which would be resolved if public bodies and large organisations would simply adopt open standards.)

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Quiet here...



(Looks round nervously.)



According to El Reg, Linux isn't having a great time. A couple of links:



http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/20/freiburg_germany_dumps_openoffice/



http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/21/powerful_linux_rootkit/



With respect to the first, I suspect it's going to be very difficult to achieve true acceptance of open standards while local/national governments fail to implement them fully.



Doing so would remove the problems of incompatible formatting among various items of software. Interesting article from Dedoimedo:



http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/libreoffice-vs-microsoft-office.html



It's not just the file extension, but the formatting, it seems...



Dunno about the infected servers - all over my head.  As always, the comments are as interesting as the article.

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Just to balance your last post OE, some rather better news from Munich.



http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Linux-brings-over-EUR10-million-savings-for-Munich-1755802.html

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That is an encouraging story.



It's worth googling a little further, too. Looks as if the decision to go open-source was not really cost-driven; the city fathers of Munich seem to have looked beyond that. A couple of older articles:



http://wikis.ssrc.org/posa/index.php?title=LiMux%E2%80%94Free_Software_for_Munich



This one suggests that reasons that open software was preferred included:



greater vendor independence, leading to more competition in the software market;


 


the future-proofness of open protocols, interfaces, and data formats;


 


and improved security through greater transparency.


 


For users, the greater stability of their workspace computers is expected to be the biggest advantage.



All arguments which I think have cropped up from time to time,, or been linked to, during the course of this thread.



That Munich seems to be saving money is icing on the cake, but the benefits of going open-source are evidently even greater than simple monetary savings.



It looks a little as if moving to open-source can be done, but that it takes whole-hearted commitment. Presumably this includes working with other organisations, and not simply accepting wails that "We can't open that." Must be quite tricky if the wails come from a large and influential industrial or government concern.



Some interesting stuff in those articles about MS's responses (bear in mind this five or six years ago - not long, perhaps, but probably a fair time in software and development history.)  I was also amused that MS inadvertently help nudge Munich along its open-source road. When the time came to replace NT, for instance, concern was expressed at MS's shift to leasing software licences - and to XP's habit of "telephoning home."



However, such own goals only seemed to encourage Munich to move away from Microsoft, rather than being the main reason for the move.



All fascinating stuff - thanks for pointing that out, g-c.





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A little more discussion on the Munich success story/Freiburg flop in moving to open source:



http://www.h-online.com/open/features/Comment-OpenOffice-s-Tale-of-Two-Cities-1760502.html



Needless to say in light of my last post, I was interested in the view that any move has to be all or nothing:




If there's a lesson in all this it's that migrating a core software tool such as an office suite doesn't work if it's done half-heartedly. It requires careful planning and has wide-ranging consequences and that means an initial capital cost. In addition, a project of this kind needs to get both users and the IT department on board – in Freiburg it appears to have failed on both counts.


 



I honestly believe that the factors mentioned in my last boring ramble post are at least as important as that of cost, although I would imagine the long-term cost savings of moving to open source, especially in the public sector, could be considerable.



Of course, there's always the problem of the incessant updates which typify open source, but there's little to prevent large businesses or public bodies devising their own long term support software. No licensing worries, after all, and I really do wonder whether government/industry really need all the bells and whistles offered by proprietary software - or whether they could design their systems around open source rather than waiting for big software houses to tell them how to do things...



It looks as if further progress is being made with respect to the UEFI/Secure Boot problem, too:



http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Secure-Boot-bootloader-for-Linux-1761089.html



More detail in the developer's blog if anyone's interested (bit over my head, 'tho I think I grasped some of it!):



http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/20303.html



I suppose there might still be the odd ethical question mark over using something like this (quite an outcry when Ubuntu and someone else - Red Hat, perhaps? - started incorporating the appropriate key), but it'll be interesting to see how it all develops.



Presumably this will be of particular value for distros designed to run on mobile devices (ARM architecture and what have you) which MS has decreed must have full time Secure Boot if they're to carry the lucrative "Ready for W8"  or whatever it is logo.



Apologies if I've misunderstood all that. More available from the links.


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More good news - from Limerick.



There was a town called Limerick,


Which had enough of Microsoft's gimmericks.


They went all open source,


And then, of course,


There was money to spare for Pat and Mick.



http://www.thevarguy.com/2012/12/12/irish-city-adopts-open-source-business-server/



And more of the same from Bern -



http://www.thepowerbase.com/2012/12/swiss-city-mandates-use-of-open-source-banishes-microsoft-officially/



It seems that Freiburg's recent decision had a reek of fish about it -



http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/76811.html


 

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:^O



Interesting stuff. Amazing how Those In Charge of governments and industry continue to spend a fortune on proprietary software rather than make the break.



I still think the bits mentioned earlier (post 1352) are even more important than the costs. Problem is actually making the move.



Imagine if all large organisations used open source file extensions. Anyone, even those on a limited budget, would be able to communicate with them. Perhaps that's what worries them.



Meantime they just hope that nobody will really notice that they continue to pay large software outfits to (effectively) tell them how to run their affairs, and hope to goodness that they will be able to continue to afford the financial and other costs of vendor lock-in.



You'd think, as a matter of course
Our leaders would see Open Source
As involving less waste
And in far better taste
Than flogging the Microsoft horse

Perhaps something dark's going on?
Say, licensing sold for a song?
It's nothing so sinister
Just more of "Yes, Minister"
Let's hope we don't find that we're wrong

To continue with placing our trust
In stuff for which later we must
Find coffers to raid
For the next Great Upgrade
In the hopes that it isn't a bust



(Otherwise known as, "Don't attempt doggerel on a Saturday night.")



*Hic*

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Well, I've had a bit of a linux challenge over the last 3 weeks.



You may recall I've been using Chakra (KDE, 64bit) for a little while. I had a hard drive failure which resulted in me losing the OS.



Although I was happy with the way Chakra ran, I was a little dissatisfied with the continual major updates (most notably a switch to systemd, but in addition there seemed to be a major swathe of updates once per week, involving a lot of time.



So, I decided to have a change and went for Fedora, which was the runner-up to Chakra last time. I've liked this distro since I used it on a test system last year when I was developing a streaming camserver. I installed the latest version and it was extremely good except for the killer - video drivers. I run dual monitors with an Ati(AMD) graphics card. It turned out that there was no way (within my capabilities) to get this rather simple setup to work. KDE would not handle it natively and every attempt I made to follow guides to install Ati drivers resulted in a system which would not start.



Eventually I gave up and decided to go back to Chakra. Not wanting to go through the systemd upgrade again, I downloaded the very latest iso and installed it. Wonderful, graphics worked first time, dual monitor setup a breeze. But (there just has to be a but), I could not install Apper (the GUI to the Pacman software manager). I don't mind using the terminal to update software, but I want to be able to find new applications through a GUI - Apper had vanished from the repos.



I gave up with Chakra at that point and did some more evaluation. I generally shirk Ubuntu variants, but I decided to give Bodhi a try - mainly because I was interested in trying the Enlightenment desktop. What a good decision that was. It handles everything I want. I love the desktop (bit of a learning curve, but I'm getting there), handles multiple monitors (through XrandR) well, has al the software I would ever need available and runs nice and lean. Nice distro.

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Trouble is, there are so many distros available. Ironically, probably one of the major factors militating against more universal adoption of GNU/Linux.



I like the Ubuntu-based distros for their (generally speaking) ease of use, although I must say I'm a little wary of the commercial direction Ubuntu itself is taking. Fair enough, I suppose - they've funded an awful lot of useful stuff. But simply imposing that "shopping  lens" on users as a default installation has made me just a little wary.



I see Ubuntu's determined to get onto smart telephones:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20891868



I've an idea it coexists with Android rather than replaces it.



If it were possible to totally replace Android (sorry, I just don't entirely trust Google not to slurp data and profile me), I might almost be tempted to buy an old "smartphone" on this site and try it with Ubuntu. (Mint for preference, but I don't know whether there is a version to suit the average telephone yet.)



It'd be useful to have an out-and-about internet device, but it wouldn't be nice to have it constantly monitoring and tracking. A non-Android distro allowing the installation of my normal apps, however, with the normal protections, would be vaguely appealing. Wonder whether that'll ever be possible?



(Between network providers constantly monitoring telephones' positions and the beastly things transmitting their unique IDs when they're used on the internet, I suspect they will still not be for me - unless there were some way around at least the second bother with a conventional distro.)



Perhaps the Unity desktop will come into its own.



I've been messing about in a small way with Stella:



http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=stella



- a sort of CentOS for the masses (eg me.) Pleasantly old-fashioned feel to it, but nice and responsive on a Pentium4 2.4GHz relic with 1GB of RAM.



Might replace it with Bodhi (interesting name) - I do like lightweight distros.



And really must try Trisquel. Although I admire folk like Richard Stallman immensely, I'm only too aware of my own limitations and like Mint's (Gallic?) practicality in incorporating non-free binary blobs to make life simpler. Trisquel might prove a touch challenging by comparison, but perhaps I should make the effort. I noticed it was the one handed out by the penguinistas who invaded a Microsoft event recently, which seemed an admirable thing to do.



Suspect I'll hate it...



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Knew it was round here somewhere:



https://www.fsf.org/news/gnu-comes-bearing-gifts-draws-shoppers-from-windows-store



Microsoft "Tech for Tots" session - I can't be the only one to find that seriously creepy. Get them young and they'll be paying us for ever. At least the penguins left when asked to do so.

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Good grief - I actually quite liked Trisquel - just tried a live session on the old desktop.



Browser (forget what it was called; mozilla spin-off that wouldn't accept WOT - n_b_t would like it!), Writer and the System Monitor (which had to be launched from the terminal) seemed to use about 390MiB of RAM, which I suppose is not too bad at all. The single-core CPU didn't seem too frantic, either.



It said it was running in fall-back mode - I didn't pay close attention to the boot-up - which suggests Gnome 3. Perhaps it would be possible to use XFCE or MATE or something on older equipment.



Interesting - it seems (must look closer) to use Gnash rather than Flash. Played YouTube OK, although there seemed to be no full-screen option.



Might just install it and look closer.

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For goodness sakes:



http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2013/01/11/microsoft_schools_mou/



The Department for Education reckons it has saved £10 million over the next three years with a new deal with Microsoft.



Some interesting stuff in that article, and equally so in the comments which follow.



Perhaps I've read it wrong, but it looks as previous agreements allowed MS to penalise users (presumably through higher licensing costs) who also used non-MS software.



Educational institutions allowed MS to dictate to them what, if any, non-MS software they could use if they wished to retain their discounts? I honestly find that quite incredible - as I said, I must have misunderstood that.



From the article:



Schools can continue to buy new or upgrade Microsoft licences, there is no obligation to buy stuff from the Redmond software giant though, and under the terms of the deal they will not be penalised for using an alternative.



One of the "commentards" ("HollyHopDrive") offered a quick back-of-the-envelope type calculation, based on the number of schools involved over the three year period - reckoned they'd save £165.85 per year.



Maybe not such a spectacular saving, but another great step forward for a large corporation seeking to lock its users in?



The reason I'm sceptical of the real value of the "concession" (still makes my blood boil if I've understood it right) in "allowing" the use of other software is that it is highly unlikely that most schools will even think about such alternatives.



Rather shockingly, a number of commentards refer to the fact that a large percentage of existing educational software depends upon MS Windows. The only way to break this particular dependency would probably be to outlaw the use of proprietary software in schools altogether.



And I can really see that happening.



It would be interesting to see just how quickly the open-source community came up with competent alternatives if the demand existed, though. I suspect it would be pretty quick.



Must say, I find the argument that "Microsoft is the industry standard and children should therefore be taught to use it" less than compelling - they should surely be taught to use software - how hard would it be to learn MS Word if you're a competent user of Writer, for instance?



A couple of suggestions I liked, though. One was that MS should actually pay (say £100) for each of its licences used in schools - since it benefits in the long term from "hooking" its users.



Another was that parents whose children needed MS products to do their homework should insist upon the school concerned providing those products and the associated hardware if they continued to insist on their use.



Personally, I like the idea of all educational institutions, at least up to secondary level, using only open-source software.



Folk then wanting training to use proprietary software (as opposed to sitting down and figuring it out for themselves) would be expected to pay substantial sums of money for the software and for the relevant courses, and to serve some sort of apprenticeship in an office offering no choices and no alternative means of performing daily chores.



Might as well get used to the idea, after all.


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I see that cheap upgrades to Windows 8 end at the end of the month. Might mention that in another thread in case it affects anyone.


 


Funny, my last upgrade on this machine cost me nothing.


 


And on a computer which struggled to handle it, reverting to the old system cost me nothing either.

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This is just me in whine and complain mode.


 


Support for Mint 9 ends soon (sigh - my favourite distro so far.)


 


Mint 13 is very nice - but - (sad person alert) I like my weather applet/clock.


 


In Mint 9, one simply opens it and tells it how to show the clock (order of date, time etc, and equally usefully, you simply type in your location and it will give you the correct weather.)


 


Mint 13 - setting up date/time as you like it involves that dreadful strftime or whatever it's called - looking up and entering codes rather than simply choosing, say, day-then date-then month-then year.


 


Ugh.


 


The only weather applet I've found is even worse.


 


Having gone through a relatively convoluted installation (ie it's not simply in the repos), one needs to enter a Where On Earth ID. In the old one, I simply typed the name of the place I live.


 


It's taken me half an hour to find the wretched thing. The default page offered didn't even seem to know about the existence of the UK, much less the northern isles.


 


I've entered it.


 


It still gives me the Innsbruck weather.


 


Amazing how little things can annoy one. But what a regression, from simply entering information to having to research and then fiddle around with codes and so on.


 


In all fairness, it's the only thing I've found so far which Gnome did much better than Cinnamon...

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And another thing.


 


Why does one now have to enter a user name on log-in? The Mint 9 log-in page offers one's user name (with a drop down, should more than one user be registered on the computer.)


 


I've lost count of the number of times I've entered my password, and realised too late what I've done. Hit Enter, get annoying message, start again by typing in the user-name, entering that then entering the password.


 


Sometimes I really think I understand why folk resist change.


 


Sometimes I wonder whether I'm turning into a grump.

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Just a note for anyone interested - I needed to change my motherboard recently. I did a lot of checking and the advice on changing it on the fly ran from no problem at all to don't do it, it will be a disaster.


 


I did it (after a few essential backups) and it fell into the no problem at all camp. In fact you wouldn't have thought I'd done anything at all - no messages, no errors, everything just as it was before I swapped the mb out. The only change that I could find was that my lan adapter had become eth1 from 0.

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