The Linux Distro Thread (maybe)

[ej-solutions]

Thought I'd start this one off, rather than continue on another thread.

As a quick catch up for others:

Have a look at Unetbootin, as a means to try out different versions of Linux, without producing numerous coasters (unwanted CDs).
I haven't tried the method of installing to hard drive, only the USB flash drive method (so far).

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Just skimming the surface

Opinions/guidance expressed are intended to benefit the reader (mostly) but no responsibility should be assumed for the accuracy and no warranty is implied/expressed or given - so eBay may pull this post

[otherego]

(Glares enviously at oxie's two CPUs.)

I'm intrigued - what distro is that? Looks vaguely Lubuntu-ish.

Iceweasel's a sort of ethical Firefox, if I recall correctly - uses only free software. I could, of course, be totally wrong again.

Be interesting to see whether you can use FF add-ons and things.

That clock's actually quite elegant, isn't it?

Must try something with LXDE again. Useful on my sort of equipment, with its low system needs.

It's depressing how much hard drive space is taken up by current distros, though. A real problem for eccentrics (hem-hem) who cling to their old Eee PCs with the 4GB SSDs.

Xubuntu, for instance, positively flies on a 4g EeePC. The new version demands more disc space for installation than the Eee actually has, though. (Must look into ways around that.)

The new board seems to be working, although actually logging in bounced me from this page to some general community page. So far, so good.

Bed time!

[oxieman]

OE - It's this:-

debian-6.0.5-i386-businesscard.iso

Had two goes at installing, mostly due to slow internet and not able to check progress etc, [Mekon, footy etc.] plus I could not login 😞  I could, but did not want to mess about with passwd files etc - root could not get in on GUI. There is a 'recovery/safe boot up tho'.

Managed to see boards with iceweasel.

Too late now but did manage screenshot - have a couple of errors with guest editions on boot up - my next move after checking out snapshots. Did so before but have forgotten :_|

It'smuch too late now, off to bed....

Oxie...

[otherego]

Funny, I've totally missed out on a couple of the major distros so far - Debian and Fedora come to mind.

I must look for that one, oxie. It might just work on some of the antiques. (Although nothing, but nothing, boots from an MMX CPU any more.)

I've sometimes had more success installing something to an actual computer rather than VirtualBox. I tend to use one of the old wrecks I pick up on eBay. Most people are more self-disciplined and prefer not to have twenty dead laptops cluttering the place up.

I think it was ej who suggested keeping a small partition on one's daily-use computer specifically for trying out distros. Thanks to the magic of GRUB, this is unlikely to lead to boot problems.

And if it does, there's always fixmbr then something like PLOP to launch the guest system.

What I really need is masses of money so that I can get a decent computer. But that could take some of the fun out of it, too. (Time to fire up the Toughbook again - 300MHz PII and 256MB of RAM - used to positively fly with AntiX. That distro of oxie's looks promising, though.)

[oxieman]

I've yet to try VB in Windows - not sure my ancient XP equipment could handle the excitement, to be honest.

OE, Hope I am not trying to 'teach Granny to suck eggs' by this post.

Re the businesscard.iso - It's a minimal Installer for Debian - Used by Raspberry Pi digitoy wallers.

I saw this last year [On YouTube tutorials for the Pi] and had a quick (look and play when messing about) foray on my first installation of VB after getting my new Mobo.

Current iso dir:-
http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-cd/

Tis only 46Mb, initial download.

This will download it:-

http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/iso-cd/debian-6.0.5-i386-businesscard.iso

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Further update/progress on Oxie's 'Linux shenanigans'...

I could not sort out "a couple of errors with guest editions on boot up" for the Oxie_Pi - So I did another install in VB with success [including Guest Additions].

A couple of points, I downloaded the 'businesscard.iso' [46Mb] again, and the netinst.iso [191Mb]. When tried the biggie it could not detect a disc drive, it wanted the driver!! - I left it at this point as presumed it was down to VB that could not 'probe' my system - as would be the case on a full 'normal install' - I could be completely wrong about that oc.
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If you do decide to install [I did make notes from a YouTube Video], the following may help:-

Leave proxy blank.
After the 'Popularity Contest' (Say No, I assume you will), use 'Spacebar' to uncheck all.

It auto removed the 'Installation Media'

After loggin in, su to root and run:-
apt-get install lxde xorg

After buzzing off to get that lot [Net activity did stop a few times for quite some time during the process, I assume due to mirror servicing others], unpacking and installing then completes...

Now run:-
apt-get xserver-xorg-video-all

exit [logout root]

startx

shutdown and 'reboot'
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I took a snapshot [being ultra cautious], then went for 'InstallGuestAdditions' - Assume you know how, if not the guy on the tutorial had a novel way of doing it - let me know if you need this.
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If you want a really minimal installation use an app called 'apptitude' - if not then search for synaptic, download/install - you know the rest....

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Screenshot, showing probs with Oxie_Pi..
VBox_add_Fail.jpg

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df outputs, both standard install...
Sizes
Debian 1.62Gb (1.7)
Mint13 3.38 (3.55) - does have many more apps tho'
I do like the partitioning of Debian, looks very Unix like...
------------------------
teddybear@oxie:~$ df
Filesystem           1K-blocks      Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda1               330215    138579    174587  45% /
tmpfs                   517200         0    517200   0% /lib/init/rw
udev                    512760       176    512584   1% /dev
tmpfs                   517200         0    517200   0% /dev/shm
/dev/sda9              2913876    101108   2664752   4% /home
/dev/sda8               238986      6183    220464   3% /tmp
/dev/sda5              2879612    758912   1974424  28% /usr
/dev/sda6              1412048    308220   1032100  23% /var
/dev/sr0                 50942     50942         0 100% /media/cdrom0
teddybear@oxie:~$
------------------------
And for Mint:-

teddybear@ted-VirtualBox ~ $ df
Filesystem     1K-blocks    Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda1        7315148 3330928   3617272  48% /
udev              505508       4    505504   1% /dev
tmpfs             205104     892    204212   1% /run
none                5120       0      5120   0% /run/lock
none              512760      80    512680   1% /run/shm
teddybear@ted-VirtualBox ~ $
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An Oxxxie scylabub - Found UserManual pdf in Docs Dir of VB, didn't know it was there!!

Still a lot to learn OE, am winding down for Hols, come end of week...

Cheating now as posted from FF :^O

Oxie...

[otherego]

I messed up the first attempt (in VBox) - thanks for the pointers! I'll have another try - but might simply download the full Debian CD instead.

It sometimes works out faster than those clever basic installs which promptly demand an internet connection, and then spend the rest of the night downloading the rest of the distro.

Back in the eighties, I took an aptitude test for computing. I just scraped into the top 97% - and scuttled off and avoided the things for another two decades.

Almost tempted by the Rasberry Pi, although I'll bet my total lack of programming aptitude has not been improved for the better by galloping middle-age.

My own approach to GNU/Linux is much simpler. I go for the easy distros, and google snags quite unashamedly - eke the necessary commands (ah, C & P!) to rectify little bothers.

And I still maintain that for cyber-thickies like me, current distros are really no more challenging than Windows. If Mint offers updates, I tell it to install them. This happens quickly and efficiently. (I'm now really going to tempt fate.) I've yet to have one go horribly wrong.

They very rarely need restarts; when they do, they don't nag you.

And the restart has yet to reveal the need for a reinstallation of the OS as the simplest way of sorting out whatever the update borked.

Third party software (as long as it comes from the official repos) is updated simultaneously and just as easily.

This evening, I decided to update the XP desktop. The poor thing was last started in March.

MSE updates (why on earth are they so slow?). Firefox updates. Malwarebytes updates. Spybot updates. And I've not even looked at Flash or Java yet. Nor booted into the admin account for the Windows updates. Or the Comodo updates.

Compared with the friendly and simple efficiency of Mint, the whole process provokes what a skydiving mate used to describe as a "gargling scream of horror." (No, I didn't skydive, but chucked them out a few times. Not that dumb adventurous.)

And it's now after bed-time, over an hour into the process and Windows updates yet to come.

It'll never catch on.

Oh, wait....

[oxieman]

If you want a really minimal installation use an app called 'apptitude' - if not then search for synaptic, download/install - you know the rest....

Still a lot to learn OE, am winding down for Hols, come end of week...

Just reading my post #1288 - I was not correct on the above quote.
I miss-spelt the app name :_|

Also I should have said:- Use aptitude to select 'synaptic' for download and subsequent install.

Near the bottom - it should read "I still have a lot to learn OE......"

Scyllabubs galore :^O

I penned this earlier this afternoon, but had to curtail - Wee doggie 'haircut Woman arrived" 😞

Just flipped over from my Dell.

Oxie...

[ej-solutions]

A little Pi has been keeping me quiet for the past week. Back messing about with distros and trying to get USB devices to work. As if I don't have enough to keep me occupied (occupi-ed?).

[otherego]

I downloaded (as I thought) Mageia 2 - both the Gnome and KDE live CDs.

The Gnome one worked, apart from the fact that my old machinery couldn't handle the fancy desktop.

Just tried the KDE. Odd. I should have looked more closely - it seems to be some sort of antiX hijack. antiX12edelweibepiraten (the "B" the fancy German one I can't remember how to do) or something like that.

Too late to get all het up about it now, but I must have another look on the morrow. Thought I'd followed all the Distrowatch links carefully.

It'd be most depressing if Mageia's server's been hijacked or reloaded with some villainy. Probably a good thing it didn't finish booting (wanted to drop to a command line  followed by CLI - I just wanted to try a Mageia live CD.)

DuckDuckGo hasn't found anything, but that's no unusual. I think I'm going to go back to Snoop Central.

[otherego]

I really am having a bad week.

As far as I can see, I simply clicked on the wrong .iso. Nowt wrong with the Mageia download, thankfully.

Now to actually try it out...

[oxieman]

A little Pi has been keeping me quiet for the past week. Back messing about with distros and trying to get USB devices to work. As if I don't have enough to keep me occupied (occupi-ed?). 

On hols at the mo - Seen this in a magazine:-

Not sure if any use but seems SD cards could be a source of problems - [For the R-Pi] - I do not profess to understand any of it.

http://www.elinux.org/RPi_VerifiedPeripherals

Search for:- Working SD Cards and Problem SD Cards on the page.

I may get one of these Pies - one day

OE - see you are having fun 😄

Oxie...

[otherego]

Always have fun. It must be really dull for people who actually know what they're doing.

Here's one to really get you all yawning.

I've an odd affection for the old Eee PCs, with the tiny capacity solid state drives.

The early models only had a single 4GB SSD; later versions added a second SSD (a slower one) of 8 or 16GB for data and things.

Unfortunately, even Linux distros are putting on weight. Try to install the latest Xubuntu (12.04, I think) or Mint XFCE, and you are told that you need at least 4.4 GB.

You couldn't try to force the matter, as the install button was simply greyed-out.

With earlier 'buntu-based distros, it was possible to just go ahead and install by changing the value of the minimum disc size. One launched the live CD, opened a terminal, and entered:

gksu gedit /usr/lib/ubiquity/plugins/ubi-prepare.py

(or gksu leafpad or whatever one's text editor was.)

About 300 lines into the document that appeared, you simply changed:

min_disk_size = size * 2

to

min_disk_size = size * 1.4"

and a smaller value, which I can't remember, showed up as the mimimum space.

I told you this would be boring.

Unfortunately, that line seems to have vanished from the current version. I did find one which read:

self.controller.allow_go_forward (False)

Changing the False to True got rid of the greyed-out Install button, and I've now managed to get Xubuntu 12.04 and Mint 13 XFCE on to (virtual) 4GB drives.

The little things it takes to keep me happy...

[otherego]

My next yawn-inducer is this.

I've managed to run Mint 12 on an Eee PC 901 (/ on the 4GB fast drive; /home on the 16GB slow drive.)

This leaves very little breathing space on the 4GB drive.

The 16GB drive really is pretty slow.

I'd like to upgrade to Mint 13 (Cinnamon or possibly XFCE - I've had problems with that in the past, but the latest one seems to be updating happily on VBox - we'll see).

Obviously, it makes sense to keep the operating system on the faster drive. /home seems to work fine on the larger but smaller drive.

I keep getting low space warnings during updates.

Would it help to put /var (as well as /home) on the larger drive when next I reinstall? Only a couple of hundred MB at the moment, but that would increase free space on the small drive by a significant percentage. It would be annoying if this caused a massive slow down overall; if it just slowed things down during updates and such, no problem.

And how much to allow /var? It's only a 16 GB drive (might actually be 8 on that one, now I think of it - ex Windoze machine.) Not something I'm likely to copy 9GB DVDs onto, but there's always an outside possibility of using it to copy a data DVD from/to external drives. This might simply be asking too much, of course.

Suggestions gratefully received...

[oxieman]

First thoughts - The /var contains all the log files and this may restrict things.

Will have a look later and poss make further comments.

You could monitor using 'top' to check what's being updated with a greater frequency than other bits and bobs in there.

Oxie

[oxieman]

Here you go OE, just noticed this - have you heard of it?

Looks like it might be worth watching..

Damn Small Linux (DSL) 4.11

http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=damnsmall

I might have a play in VBox when have some time.

Oxie...

[otherego]

Thanks for that, oxie. Nice to see DSL a work in progress again.

I do hope they stick with the elderly kernel. It's really difficult to find anything that will run on an elderly CPU unable to offer the CMOV instruction - whatever that might be.

It's almost impossible to find anything reasonably up to date that will boot on my old Toshiba 320CDT, a state-of-the art (a long time ago) masterpiece with a 233mHz MMX (the problem) CPU and a mighty 96Mb of RAM.

I'll try to append a couple of photos of DSL running on the mighty 320. Apologies for their being blurry - taken with my little point-and-shoot camera. If there's a way to take screen shots on DSL, I've not found it yet.

It still has Firefox 2, and it will be interesting to see whether this is upgraded in due course. FF2 barely runs on the 320; I suspect more recent versions might prove a no-no.

Hopefully the photos will (just) show the very low resource use, even with several things open. (Having a premature senior moment - I can't remember the name of the lighweight system monitor on the top right hand corner of the screen.

Dillo is better suited to antique computers, but few sites take kindly to a text-only browser - certainly as far as interactive features are concerned. (eBay looks even odder current "innovating" seems to make it on normal computers...)

Other programs include an ultra-lightweight word processor (TED), lightweight spreadsheet (the slightly disconcertingly-titled Slag, and a basic graphics-type app, mtPaint.

Until last night, I'd more or less forgotten the old 320. It had TinyCore, which is most impressive, but I managed to confuse myself trying to add apps. Must give it another shot.

It was originally forked from DSL - if I'm not mistaken, Robert Shingledecker "founded" both. More here on TinyCore, if you'd like to give that a try, too:

http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/welcome.html

It's on Distrowatch, too.

[otherego]

The poorest of photos are clearer if one actually remembers to attach them.

[oxieman]

OE
Just a couple of further thoughts on your PC 901.

If you don't use 'Man Pages' you could get rid of em.
In a terminal type 'whereis man' - I did this on my Mint running in VB and gave this:-

teddybear@ted-VirtualBox ~ $ whereis man
man: /usr/bin/man
/usr/bin/X11/man
/usr/local/man
/usr/share/man
/man.7.gz
/usr/share/man/man1/man.1.gz
teddybear@ted-VirtualBox ~ $
That is edited.
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You could move, but not sure how you could link back to OS.
Also did not check total size but it/they look quite large.
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My other thought is on the log files....

From my previous experience - long ago - the log files should be configuerable to a certain number of old copies [much like the number of restore points on a windoze system].

The thing that controls all this lot is logrotate.
It be scary stuff a bit involved - if you want to pursue, the man page is here:-

http://linux.die.net/man/8/logrotate

A couple of quotes from a bit of googling....
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/var
var denotes variable files. Those files are kept in this directory that are supposed to grow. Some of the files that reside in here are - /var/log (system log files), /var/lib (package files), /var/mail (emails), /var/spool (print queues), /var/tmp (temporary files that are needed across reboots).

Read more: http://www.linuxstall.com/beginners-guide-to-linux-directory-structure/#ixzz22guoQMni
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the log file solution is to configure logrotate to delete logfiles after x days or if they get to a certain size.

so do a man on logrotate and look at /etc/logrotate.conf and /etc/logrotate.d/
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Hope that gives you some food for thought 😄

Thanks for your last post, not had time to inwardly digest - have downloade DSL

Oxie...

[otherego]

Cheers, oxie. I'll look into that lot.

A problem which has occurred with Mint 13 on a 4 GB drive (/home on the 16 GB drive) is low space warnings during updates - which have nevertheless succeeded so far.

I was rather hoping that update files (cache?) ended up in /var, and that shifting it to the larger partition might at least take care of that problem - and give me a little breathing space in dealing with others.

But - how large to make its partition, I wonder. Googling (or DuckDuckGoing) hasn't helped much, although I now know that at the turn of the century 200MiB would probably have sufficed. I suspect 2GiB would be more appropriate - even this might be a little low. It needs to be big enough to allow /var's occasional inlation - but seems a little silly to use a third of the hard drive for, say, a 5GB partition which will rarely be filled.

One of those slightly back-burnerish projects, but one I'm keeping alight.

[grumpy-cook]

I've amassed enough bits to build myself a new PC and get a bit more up to date with 64-bit. I need to decide which distro and which desktop.

I'm leaning towards Fedora - I built a streaming server for a friend with it about a year ago and quite liked it. I've also considered Debian, OpenSUSE, and of course PCLinuxOS which I currently run. I tend to avoid Ubuntu based distros, not sure why but there's just something I don't like about them. Any suggestions here?

What about desktop? I'm tempted to go with KDE because I know it fairly well now, but is it worth considering LXDE or Xfce? Or is Gnome any better these days?

Any suggestions gratefully received.

[otherego]

I suppose one of the joys of GNU/Linux is the sheer volume of choice.

I suppose one of the biggest problems of GNU/Linux is the sheer volume of choice.

A lot to be said for sticking with what you like on the workaday computer, perhaps, and experimenting with others on spare/virtual machines.

My own preference is for long-term support versions for the main computer - I'm still very happy with Mint - although rolling release distros would keep things cutting-edge. Tricky.

Have you had a look at CentOS lately, g-c? I haven't, but Igor at Dedoimedo seems impressed. I was also taken with Mageia 1, and keep meaning to replace its partition with Mageia 2.

What I've seen of Gnome 3 really hasn't floated my boat so far. I'm biased by the inability of most of my antiques to run it, of course, but where it does work, it always seems to take one or two more clicks to find anything.

Unity's undeniably pretty, but I found it a little underwhelming (although it did actually work on an Eee PC.)

Xubuntu is my current favourite for low-powered stuff. Peformance won't be a consideration for you, but the sheer speed of XFCE is attractive. I also find it easy to use, even if it is a little old-fashioned looking and would probably be quite out of place on a modern dumb smart telephone. Mint XFCE is also working quite nicely on VBox - unlike an earlier version which I rather messed up.

If your preferred distro supports Cinnamon or MATE, I personally could heartily support giving those a try. As pretty as Unity, but a *****y sight less irritating - downright pleasant to use, in fact.

Again, Igor Ljubuncic's views might be of interest (if somewhat Mint-centric in these particular articles) - along with his review of CentOS, if you think you might like to consider that distro, too:

http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/linux-mint-maya-mate.html

http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/linux-mint-cinnamon.html

http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/centos-6.html