09-04-2009 9:06 AM
21-01-2011 4:41 PM
It looks very nice - I've tried the live DVD.(DVD for a "lightweight" distro - hmmm.) It battles with less than half a gig of RAM, though. Opening OpenOffice on a Thinkpad with 256MB RAM brought the whole thing to a grinding halt. Wonder whether it was using the swap partition on the T22's HDD? There was certainly a lot of hard drive access going on.
Still, nice looking and pretty quick with half a gig of RAM. Probably worth a virtual machine and a spot more playing.
Of the distros I've tried so far, AntiX is far and away the leader of the "lightweight" pack. It's a bit more manual than most modern distros - helps keep the weight down, no doubt - but has a very friendly and helpful forum. It works nicely with 128MB RAM (and that on a 300MHZ PII), and positively flies on 256MB RAM. Doesn't boot on an MMX CPU, though, so I've been unable to stress it on the old Toshiba 320CDT.
Peppermint is a fairly close second. Significantly easier to use, it's noticeably heftier in its demands - but still performs creditably with 256MB of RAM. Also incapable of handling the MMX - still a few computers with these appearing for sale from time to time, too.
Where the full size distros are concerned, I'm increasingly taken with PCLinuxOS, both GNOME and KDE (success at last - dunno why I had such hassles with KDE). They both run very nicely installed on a Thinkpad T23 with its mighty 512MB RAM and 1.13 GHz CPU - to the extent that I've actually been using the old machine for day-to-day computing for the past couple of days. The GNOME version does seem slightly faster, and I liked the fact that it at least included Abiword and Gnumeric on the CD, but the KDE interface is growing on me.
OpenOffice installed easily but slowly with both.
Worth burning the latest CDs, though - quicker than the massive update required if an older CD is used. Joys of a "rolling release." And the last update ditched the smart grey GNOME background, replacing it with something much closer to the KDE version. Do think they might have asked ... Not important enough to justify looking for a way of getting it back, though!
And it can handle floppy drives - a necessary evil if one enjoys messing about with older computers. Not sure if I read it right, but it looks a little as if the Mint team decided that since nobody uses floppies any more, the easiest way of resolving a boot bug in Mint 9 (with the system hanging while looking for a non-existent FDD) was simply to remove default floppy support. The only work-around I've found so far looks complex and time-consuming, and needs to be slogged through every time.
The really annoying thing is that my VirtualBox is on the Mint desktop, so that guest OSs can't get at floppies either. I really like Mint, but this is a real pain at times.
I'm giving the old machines a bit of a break in the interests of maintaining what's left of my sanity - a couple of other distractions at the moment, too. The current Linux entertainment for me is figuring out how to dual boot a Windoze Eee PC 900, installing Mint or PCLOS to a (relatively) inexpensive 16GB SDHC card but not installing GRUB to the machine's 4GB internal SSD. Trouble is that the latter is soldered, or I'd just remove it and install Linux on the SDHC, then reconnect the SSD. The intention is to use the ESC key on start to enter a boot choice menu.
I suppose a persistent install to 4GB of the card, using the rest for data, might just work. I'd rather not do this, though - useful though persistent installs can be, I have reservations about their security - bit like a live CD running permanently in root or with a default root password, except that the flash drive can be written to by nasties.
So I'd rather try a full install, probably using Ext 2 rather than a journalling system to try to extend card life, and no swap. Serves me right always just accepting the default GRUB options - now need to see whether there is an option to install GRUB specifically to the SDHC card's MBR. Any suggestions welcome!
Trust others are also messing around with Linux from time to time - just wish I were better at it, but tis fun. And for the working computer, it just seems to need so much less maintenance than the world's favourite operating system ...
21-01-2011 4:57 PM
An interesting "report" OE, thanks.
I'm not surprised you like PCLinuxOS, I'm very happy with it and do all my prime computing on it (I got rid of dual boot, but have 7 and XP on virtual machines if I want them). I settled for the KDE version eventually and it all works impressively well.
The only things I am not 100% happy with is the graphics card and Flash. I have a decent Nvidia card in here and can't get the drivers to support it perfectly - it's not bad, just not quite good enough. Flash, every now and again, freezes up the PC. It's an occasional irritant, not a big problem, but annoying.
27-01-2011 10:47 PM
Interesting - upgraded an old laptop to PCLinuxOS, and just couldn't get it updated - consistent error messages; none of the repos seemed to work. I was using the few that didn't "fail" the repo speed test.
Initially, I thought it might be a transient problem to do with server changes or something (after some googling) - then tried a machine that had PCLOS on it, and it updated happily.
I simply copied the repo it was using into the awkward machine and it updated fine. A bug in the speed test, or something? Most odd.
Still - it's all working now, and I should get back to finishing a couple of real-life committments.
(Behind with course assignments at my age - some things ain't changed over three and a half decades ...)
11-02-2011 2:15 PM
OE, this may be of interest to you. I have just put Salix XFCE on an old desktop (Athlon 1300, 512Mb memory) - I just wanted a little testbed to check out routers and other gear.
No livecd unfortunately, but the installation was a breeze and everything worked when it booted up and it seems impressively responsive.
12-02-2011 2:58 PM
Thanks for that, g-c. I'll certainly give it a try.
512MB RAM? That's a powerhouse...
I tried WattOS again - couldn't even get it to boot (on a VM). The iso's md5sum was fine; I haven't figured out the snag.
Also tried openSuse, which claims to have modest system requirements. It wanted a gig of RAM in order to install. Drat.
13-02-2011 1:57 PM
Salix is running happily in VBox with 256 MB of RAM. Hopefully get a couple of other committments out of the way, and try it on an old Thinkpad T22. Its Mandriva 2009 installation is no longer supported, and later versions don't even boot.
I see you can select a kernel to suit older processors, which is useful - might even work on an MMX? 'Tho I doubt whether it would cope with the 96MB RAM on that "classic."
Goodness, but this board has been the target of some inappropriate posts over the past day or two, hasn't it? Folk seem to think that "technical" = "technicalities." Not sure how to explain rants, mind you.
Back to real life stuff - if I get round to trying Salix on a real live old machine, I'll post back with the gory details.
13-02-2011 2:10 PM
Good luck with that OE, I'll be interested to hear.
15-02-2011 12:05 AM
I had WattOs running on the Fujitsu tablet (PIII 800MHz 192Mb RAM, I think - maybe less). Seemed OK.
This is interesting:
A Pentium II or Celeron system with 128 MiB of RAM is probably a bottom-line configuration that may yield slow yet usable system with Lubuntu. It should be possible to install and run Lubuntu with less memory, but the result will likely not be suitable for practical use. If you have less than 160 MiB of RAM, you will need to use the Minimal installation instructions. Please note that especially on lower powered machines (older CPU's) or low RAM systems, that the installation may seem to 'hang' at about 95%, don't worry, it has not; it can just take some time (possibly over an hour). As support for i586 chipsets has been dropped from the kernel for the 10.10 series (These include VIA C3, AMD K6, National Semiconductor and AMD Geode) you will need to use the 10.04 Release. The team will support Lubuntu 10.04 for five years (as if it were an LTS).
04-03-2011 2:43 PM
Goodness, why haven't I responded to the previous post? Sorry, ej.
Must give Lubuntu a try, I think. Salix looks pretty capable on lower powered kit, but I doubt whether it would be comfortable with specs like those.
04-03-2011 3:14 PM
With the recent security scares on eBay and other sites, we might find a few folk wondering about trying Linux. Bookworm26, hope you find your way here...
A couple of points I'd like to suggest, then a few links to articles which I've found helpful, and give more gen about GNU/Linux, and comparisons with Windows. Inevitably, these may show some bias - but interesting reading, all the same.
Linux is definitely more secure than Windows at the moment. What some may see as a downside to this is that it might occasionally require us to work just a little harder, and think a little more. Some of us are eccentric enough to find this appealing.
Linux is open-source as opposed to proprietary software; much of it is free of charge, too. The GNU project in the eighties kicked off the movement to provide quality open-source software. One of its difficulties was the lack of a suitable kernel - the basis of an operating system. This was contributed by Linus Torvalds, who aimed to provide a free alternative to the popular Unix systems, allowing similar functionality. LInus's Unix, according to lore, became Linux.
There are literally scores of different "distros" based on the Linux kernel - each has its own character and emphases.
There are significant differences between Linux and Windows - be prepared to learn a few new tricks. Having said that, modern Linux distributions - distros - are at least as easy to use as their Windows counterparts. At least, so I've found.
Some software designed for use in Windows not only doesn't work in Linux, but has no equivalent. I'm sure someone will be along with examples.
Whilst open-source software might sometimes lack the polish and refinement expected of expensive proprietary software, the major drawbacks seem to me to be either cosmetic or in the form of slightly more demanding user interfaces. I've not had the pleasure of using Adobe Photoshop, for instance, but understand it to be more intuitive than its open source counterpart, the GIMP, or Gnu Image Manipulation Program. Yet GIMP seems to exceed most people's needs, and one can hardly baulk at the price.
There are just too many Linux distros for some people's taste - it can be difficult to make a choice. Additionally, they tend not to be supported for all that long.
The upside of this is constant improvement - and when your distro's no longer supported, it's unlikely to cost you anything to replace it. (There are paid-for versions, aimed mainly at enterprise and the commercial server sector.)
Most of the apps most of us need are available for Linux - we just need to find those which can replace more familiar (to some) Windows apps. Thus, OpenOffice/GoOffice, Abiword and Gnumeric replace the MS Office suite and its components. Scribus offers a powerful publishing app. And so on.
Paid telephone support is rare. Friendly forums specific to your selected distro/s are common. Thus, lots of peer support is available on-line. (Bear in mind that not all computer experts are also blessed with strong powers of empathy - that they give up their time at all shows their inherent generosity of nature - so don't be sensitive if, just every now and then, a helper on a forum seems a little impatient. It's worth explaining from the outset that you're inexperienced. As I intend doing for the rest of my life.)
We all have our favourites. A very useful source of information about what Linux distros are available is Distrowatch:
http://distrowatch.com/
which links safely to the various distributors.
For more about just what exactly Linux (or more correctly GNU/Linux) is and what it's all about, have a read through a few of these:
http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-history.html
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-fundamental-differences-between-linux-and-windows/406
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Windows_and_Linux
http://hubpages.com/hub/Things-To-Know-Before-Replacing-Windows-By-Linux
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/10-mistakes-linux-newbies-make/34444
Much more out there, of course. And some of those are definitely dated.
Interesting ethical take on open source and education:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/schools.html
And if after all that, anyone's still keen to give it a try, feel free to post back here - someone will try to find articles to steer you in the right direction, or seek to answer your question. You'll be relieved to hear I've already used a significant chunk of my postings for the day.
And if you want advice about which distro/s to try first, post back. You will get sugggestions, and will be gratified at the arguments discussions that ensue.
04-03-2011 3:24 PM
A nice summary OA.
04-03-2011 3:24 PM
...and of course I meant OE.
05-03-2011 12:44 AM
I'm a recent convert to Linux. As I'm working on some old hardware, I've settled on Puppy for now and I love it 🙂
A few days ago I dug out a laptop I'd classed as "dead": No ram, no hard drive, no network port, no keyboard 😛
Found out it took PC100, stuck two sticks of ram in it... Fired it up... bingo! A picture!
I'm currently running puppy off the live cd. Have tried booting it from floppy and then loading puppy off a USB stick, but I'm not sure the laptop can cope with it 😛
Lot's of fun 🙂
09-03-2011 10:43 PM
What a thoroughly delightful project to be involved in, g-c.
I've only messed about with Debian on a VM; should give it another try. Fedora has a pretty good pedigree, of course.
It'll be interesting to hear how the project goes. (Wonders vaguely what happens if they decide to construct that amazingly sticky>sets really hard nest over the web-cam...)
13-03-2011 9:59 PM
I lightly bricked my faithful Eee PC 4G by updating the BIOS. Works fine except that where previously one was presented with a logo screen offering the opportunity to press Esc on startup to choose a boot option, this doesn't seem to happen. Much stabbing at F2 now sometimes produces the required screen - never quite sure how I manage to do it - and it flatly refuses to accept an older BIOS.
Despite this, I eventually got it booting from a USB stick, and finally replaced the original and now unsupported Xandros with Leeenux 4.01. So far, so good - although I suspect that adding OpenOffice will result in its taking at least as much space as Xandros. Might be time to make friends with Abiword.
Everything seems to work out-of-the-box and, unlike the original Xandros, it is possible to use the Ubuntu repos to keep things like Firefox up to date.
Messing about on a VM first revealed the default installation to use Ext4 - I was slightly surprised, given concerns about too much writing to the SSD. It seems, from a spot of googling, that the depredations wreaked upon an old Eee PC SSD by a journalling file system are probably not great enough to justify worrying about it. Ineresting.
Apparently Ubuntu/Ext4 enables relatime (now have a vague idea of what that's about) by default - presumably that's why the Leeenux developer adopted the default ext4. I hope.
(The problem with the little Eee is that some of the earlier ones - ie both my 701 and 900 - have soldered 4GB SSDs. To make it worse, the individual chips are soldered to the system board. Since I have been known to melt a car battery terminal, there's no way my soldering skills would be equal to trying anything clever...)
I'm tempted to try to enable noatime - anybody know offhand whether this coud be done in addition to relatime? I assume it involves editing of /etc/fstab, but can't even find any (obvious) reference to relatime there.
Another odditiy is that the system monitor shows about 250MB of swap in use - though I made a point of not creating a swap partition. The same used to happen with Xandros. Is there some sort of a swap file (for want of a better word) created when one installs Linux without preparing a swap partition due to SSD write limitations? And how on earth do I get rid of it?
No sign of a swap partition anywhere - so what on earth is the system monitor seeing?
All suggestions gratefully received...
13-03-2011 10:25 PM
Snipe!
13-03-2011 10:29 PM
Snipe! Where do you think you are OE, Q&A?
We are above such things on this board.
;\
13-03-2011 10:32 PM
Couldn't resist - I've never done it before, promise. (Hangs head in shame. Sort of.)
I suppose really, if we insist upon a snipe, then it should happen on post 1024.
Just in keeping with the spirit of things.
24-03-2011 10:51 PM
Goodness, but my favourite thread slid down the pages fast. Something to do with all those blessed selling questions, I suppose.
A couple of Linux type thoughts.
After spending hours persuading Java to update on a Windows 2000 machine (and getting rid of it in a huff from an XP machine - might try again another time), plus much aggravation updating Flash player on both Firefox and IE on a couple of Windows machines - what has Vista against Flash player, anyway? - rhetorical - I realised that these updates "simply happen" on Mint and PCLOS.
I'm increasingly of the opinion that modern mainstream Linux distros are'nt as easy as Windows for the typical computer user. They're easier.
Of course, there are plenty of perfectly good reasons why folk prefer to stick with Windows, including personal preferences. I honestly like having both to play with to work with.
Even non-Geeks-only modern Linux does have its foibles, though.
Installing Leeenux (jolly nice little distro, much as I dislike its cartoonish theme) to an SDHC card on a Windoze Eee PC worked fine - told it to install GRUB to the card; the idea was to manually choose Linux or Windows on boot. Perfect, until I ran the initial updates - and as usual, just accepted everything instead of looking closely. It updated GRUB2 to include Windoze - plus two obsolete kernels - and I'm too bone idle to figure out how to do anything about it. Merely untidy, but I'm sure I've successfully edited menu.lst in GRUB legacy before.
And during my first attempt at installing Leeenux to the SDHC card, I forgot to click the "Advanced" button on the last page of the installer to tell it not to install to the MBR of the little netbook's SSD. Dual boot is usually fine, but not from an SD card - since one might not want to leave this installed all the time.
It took hours to sort that one out. Turned out that XP installation CDs before SP2 don't see the Eee's hard drives, and it was only when I tried an SP3 CD that I was able to "fixmbr" instead of glaring at a blue stop-error screen. But all part of the educational side-benefits of playing with Linux, I suppose.
My tendency to just install all recommended updates is obviously going to need watching in PCLOS, too - thanks to G-C for the warning that it now replaces Firefox 3.6 with 4.
I've tried Firefox 4 (I think it was the default on Peppermint during a recent installation - no wonder I go through hard drives at such a rate) and quite liked it. The deal-breaker, though, was the fact that I could find no way of transferring bookmarks from another computer without using Sync - which I have yet to grow to like. Much prefer a USB flash drive.
Forums said that the old menus were accessible, but they sure weren't on that installation...
So Linux is still not without its little traps, but these seem generally to be the result of my own inattention, and it is rarely impossible to rectify bothers.
And if a reinstallation proves the simplest solution, it is usually so much easier and quicker than reinstalling Windows and all its associated apps.
So - with a little care - I really do think modern distros tend to be easier to use than Windows. Which is interesting.
25-03-2011 3:54 PM
One point to Mint.
It just updated Firefox - to 3.6.16.
Must watch out for attempts to install Firefox 4 though - wonder how long Mozilla will continue supporting 3.6...