The Linux Distro Thread (maybe)

[ej-solutions]

Thought I'd start this one off, rather than continue on another thread.

As a quick catch up for others:

Have a look at Unetbootin, as a means to try out different versions of Linux, without producing numerous coasters (unwanted CDs).
I haven't tried the method of installing to hard drive, only the USB flash drive method (so far).

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[otherego]

Oops! Sorry about that double post. I'm definitely off to bed.

[ej-solutions]

My desktop PC has had 2 drives for quite sometime (a good way to squeeze a little extra performance) and multi-booting OSes on the secondary drive has no additional issues. The drive is seen as hdb/hd(1), depending on which *nix is used.
Consider a 'shared' partition for your 'experiments' - called it Linix-Data, for example. That way you can see how each system fares with the same files, for examples video clips, audio files etc.

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[grumpy-cook]

I just thought I'd give you the chance of a laugh at my expense.

I've been having trouble over the last two weeks on my Ubuntu system with random freezes and sometimes Firefox just disappearing up it's own orifice. I decided that it was probably Firefox itself causing the problems and resolved to find a way to reinstall it at the weekend.

As the Ubuntu repositories are somewhat behind on Firefox releases, I installed Ubuntuzilla, a neat tool that keeps Firefox-Linux up to date for you and ran it. During the install it asks a few questions, amongst them the language. I selected "UK" from the extensive list.

Wrong. UK is Ukrainian. The install ran perfectly and I was the proud owner of an up to date Firefox - complete with quite indecipherable cyrillics on all the menus and toolbars. After a lot of futile scrabling around for an answer and much cursing, I ran Ubuntuzilla again and this time selected EN-GB (I know, what a tosser).

By the way, this didn't fix the problem. As Ubuntuzilla also handles Thunderbird though, I subsequently updated that which did fix it, thank goodness.

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[ej-solutions]

:^O
Yep, it gets me everytime - I always have to do a 'second take' on Ukrainian.

[Do a search for Shiretoko ;-)]

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[blackburn_stevie]

It would probably be easier to learn Ukrainian.






















(Just kidding, :^O)

I have 2 rules. I say exactly what I mean and I mean exactly what I say.

[ej-solutions]

Hot off the press at Distrowatch...
This looks worth reading about:
http://webconverger.com/
"Enjoy simple private Web computing on your old or new PC!"

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[ej-solutions]

Another one.. for netbook users. Now out of Alpha and into Beta, so worth a look:
http://www.geteasypeasy.com/

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[ej-solutions]

Better link for the above: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=213463&package_id=326870&release_id=690188

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[otherego]

Multi-booting with two hard drives:

This is my latest project, and I'm getting a little tied in knots.

What I've done so far is this.

I installed Ubuntu 9.04 and Mint 6 to a 40 gb IDE HDD - it worked fine.

The computer was originally a Windows 2000 machine, and I reinstalled W2K to another 40 gb IDE drive. It worked fine, with the Linux drive sitting in its bay but disconnected.

The computer is a Dell GX 260 tower, with a mightly 2 ghz processor and 1gb of RAM.

I then connected both HDDs - the Windows drive is at the end of the cable (I think this is where the computer looks for the active boot device???) and it does in fact boot quite happily when the computer is turned on. I'm using it now.

The jumpers on both HDDs are set to "cable select," simply because that's how the drive in the machine when I got it was set up - they've worked quite happily like that.

Running a Puppy live CD, it is easy to find the two drives. In fact, I managed to mount them and save a couple of bits and pieces to an external HDD prior to playing further.

Using the Mint 6 CD, I tried to reinstall Felicia over the existing installation, with the intention of getting it to install GRUB on the Windows HDD. It was originally installed after Ubuntu, on the same HDD - so presumably would control the installation of GRUB, as the last distro installed.

All I got for my pains was "Unable to install GRUB in (hd0) Executing 'grub install (hd0)' failed. This is a fatal error."

I tried again - this time, rather than using the default target, I told it to install to /dev/sda instead of (hd0). Exactly the same thing.

So far, Google has not saved the day. I've encountered a number of forums where this has occurred, but they seem to peter out before a solution is found. One possibility seemed to involve installing GRUB to Mint/root, but the ensuing editing of the menu.lst (I think) file had me soundly confused before a passing update temporarily strangled the old laptop I was using.

Daresay I'll find the article again, but to be honest, I was hoping for a simpler solution.

What I managed to read rather suggested that the problem lies somewhere other than the HDD jumper settings - which would be a relief, since these remain something of a mystery - only discovered they were set to "cable select" by googling the manufacturer's web site. (I assume when one buys new HDDs rather than second hand ones off eBay, the sticker with these data is still present.) I don't THINK it's a master/slave problem, but am definitely open to correction. The machine does seem to see both drives.

It would be useful to get this working. Once I've figured it out, I'd like to try installing Gloria (and probably Ubuntu 9.04) to an 80 gb drive (in place of the present 40 gb), triple booting them with Windows. I'd also be interested to see whether they could share a /home partition - but that is a project for another day.

And yes, the main reason for retaining the Windows partition is educational/recreational! As a bit of an internet addict, I find myself feeling oddly insecure "surfing" with Windows, even "patched," hiding behind a router and protected by Avast! and PCTools's finest software.

Any suggestions to get this triple-booting adventure off the ground would be most welcome. Not tonight, of course - tis late - but I'll look in from time to time later in the day, if I might.

[ej-solutions]

Oh, you like a challenge 🙂

Firstly, in all my days of PC Support, I can honestly say that Cable Select will cause grief somewhere along the line. The only place where this in not the case (that I've experienced) is the original Xbox. [Grab one for putting Gentoo on it - that'll keep you busy :-p]
Go for a Master/Slave combination - search around the internet will get the jumper position that you require, if not on the drive itself. The BIOS will always try to first boot from the Master drive (with Cable Select, gawd knows! ;-)).
One caveat: Some drives do not like to reside on the same IDE channel as those from another manufacturer. You may have to settle for 2 Master drives on different channels, with DVD/CD drives set as Slaves.

It's been too long since I put two drives in the desktop PC, to remember exact details about booting from the Slave drive. Details have moved on in any case.

You are along the right lines with drive names.
(hd0,1) or /dev/sda1 - 1st partition of Master drive
(hd1,1) pr /dev/sdb1 - 1st partition of Slave drive
assuming on the same IDE channel.
Otherwise /dev/sdc1 for the Master on the Secondary IDE channel. As for (hd2,1), your guess would be as good as mine 😉

Do NOT share the home partition - well I wouldn't advise it. In theory it should be OK but the programs for each distribution would have to be at the same major release. Otherwise, you may end up with bizarre user settings. Home contains so-called hidden files that determine your user profile, amongst others. Better/safer to have a shared /data partition.

Start with Windoze, then install Mint/Ubuntu in whatever order that you fancy - either should cope with booting from a secondary drive. Personally, I'd leave Mint to last 'cos I prefer the boot splash screen :8}

During the install, look for the dropdown tab (Advanced?) that tells where to install the boot loader to in both cases, it should be (hd0).
You could/can install the second Distro boot record to the secondary drive but this will require manual adjustment of the grub boot list (may require chainloading).

I flipped back to Windows yesterday (to have a quick go of UnetbootIn, for the 'safe' Linux CD project) but 'wisnae happy'. I'm even starting to use Gimp now (but still prefer PSE 5 for photo retouching etc.) If only it could use a fixed toolbar interface. I tried GimpShop (sometime ago) but couldn't see much improvement.

Triple booting, hmm, haven't booted into Dreamlinux for a couple of weeks ;-)

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[otherego]

Yikes, plenty to think about there - many thanks!

I'll report back in due course.

Meantime, this junior member of Insomniacs Anonymous is heading for bed.

(Easiest form of sort-of "triple-booting" I've found is persistent installs to flash drives - plug them in as required. I am NOT going to succumb to that marvellous idea and scratch around in the drawer, where I happen to have a DreamLinux stick - which I had forgotten about. I am NOT going to look for it now. I am going to bed.)

(Definitely)

[otherego]

Goodness, but this is not improving my sanity levels.

I have one hard drive with Windows 2000 on it. It is at the end of the IDE cable. It is an IDE drive.

I have a second hard drive with Ubuntu and Mint on it. It is set to the second connector of the IDE cable. It is an IDE drive.

Last time I tried - either of these worked fine if connected as the boot hard drive.

I'm trying to get them triple-booting by reinstalling Mint - the second distro on the second drive. It gets as far as installing GRUB and then gives up in a huff as per post 249 -fatal error indeed. It's not even as if the CD shared a sleeve with a W98 CD or anything.

After much googling and very little simple English, I thought I'd try to edit the /boot/grub/grub.conf file from the live CD. Not sure what all that means, but it solved somebody else's problem.

Somebody else found that it worked on the fourth attempt.

It didn't.

The next thing to try is to reinstall (again), but allow it to reformat the Mint partition to ext2, upgrading it again to ext3 later (apparently this is possible.) The chap offering that solution had no idea why it worked - but it's my next move, after an extended coffee break.

A quick question before I try that, in case anyone's around at the moment.

What boot flags should I set? At the moment, the Windows partition (which occupies the whole of its drive) and the Ubuntu partition (first partition in the second drive) are both showing "boot" in GParted.

Should I remove the boot flag from the Ubuntu partition, so that the only boot flag is on the Windows partition/drive? Or does one need one boot flag per drive?

I'm wondering whether this might have something to do with the fairly frequent occurrence of GRUB installation failures seen on the forums, or with the equally frequent lack of a resolution. Could it possibly be something that simple?

[otherego]

Oops

I thought I'd try to edit the /boot/grub/grub.conf file from the live CD

Forgot to mention that mine doesn't seem to have any such file. Anywhere.

Somebody else found that it worked on the fourth attempt.

The fourth attempt at installation, I mean.

Sorry about the confusion.

Coffee!

[ej-solutions]

The physical position of the drive on a 'standard' IDE cable has no bearing on whether it is Master or Slave.
So, as per previous post, set one as Master the other as Slave. [Sometimes there is a secondary jumper position to say that another HDD is connected to the same IDE channel/cable].
Having a boot flag set on the other drive is normal. (You may decide to remove a drive in order to boot another OS, for example if one drive failed - a different subject area).
Your w2k disk should be set as the Master.

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[otherego]

BLAST! I'd even copied the necessary jumper settings down on a piece of paper and then forgot to reset them. Sigh. Time to open the poor thing up for the fourth time this afternoon.

Then I'll try again. Thanks for the patience.

[otherego]

I think I'm slowly getting there.

Formatting Mint's partition to ext 2 allowed me to progress from a fatal error to a mere GRUB error 21 - as in the disk could not be found.

Since I'd now totally wiped my old installation (through reformatting from ext 3 to 2), I took advantage of the situation and tried again with Gloria - still formatting the partition to ext 2.

Same thing.

Did something bizarre in the old Dell put it off the master/slave setup? On the basis of reversing changes made just before a problem, I set the HDD jumpers back to their original positions.

Same thing again.

Only then did it dawn on me to look into the BIOS settings - an area I've never played with before. This showed at least one of the HDDs as "OFF." Hitting the space bar allowed me toggle this to "AUTOMATIC" - which I vaguely hoped might allow the machine to somehow detect the drive on reboot.

I rebooted - and there, in all its bedewed green glory, was Mint 7's GRUB menu. I've now launched Windows, Gloria and Ubuntu (which has some file-system problem it's been nagging about for a while, but it seems to work otherwise - I'm typing this from the Ubuntu partition.)

So - if Linux absolutely refuses to install GRUB, try installing the distro concerned on ext2. I have absolutely no idea why this worked.

And I have discovered that it the software can't find a disk, it might just be worth a look at the hardware - or at least at the way BIOS sees the hardware.

If all this keeps working, the next plan is to replace this hard drive with another second hand one, this time of 80gb, and install Mint and Ubuntu on that - giving them twice the space. Your point about avoiding a common /home is taken, thanks ej. What I may do is try separate root and home folders within each installation, to simplify updates and reinstallations.

Now to play a little more with the new Mint, I think - it looks really nice, if looks count in these things.

Thanks for all the advice, ej - I suspect I'll be back again ere long.

[ej-solutions]

Oh no! :O]:)

Couple of things to note in Mint - easier updates (padlock in taskbar).
Software Manager, to install 'common' packages - lot easier/quicker than Synaptic Package Manager. 🙂

Organise your most used programs by right-clicking, Show in MyFavourites.

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[otherego]

Thanks very much! (Oh no! indeed!)

Yes, I'm greatly enjoying the new Mint. Although I've been using Mint 6 for a while, this one just looks somehow slicker.

And for some reason, it seems more responsive on this machine, ext 2 or not.

Nice to have access to relatively safe internet prowling again!

[ej-solutions]

I might add: The only partitions that I would share between distributions are swap (tends to do that automatically), temp (if you must) and an independent data partition.

ext2 is adequate for a temp partition, whereas you should really use a journalled file system, such as ext3 or ext4 for more important partitions like /, /home etc.

An example of a server-based partitioning (OTT for home use):

/boot - 50Mb - BFS (Boot File System) or ext2
/ - 5Gb - using a journalled file system
/var - 5Gb - web/monitoring software
/opt - 5Gb - supplementary programs
/usr - 10Gb - (incorporates home) for user accounts
/tmp - 2Gb - temporary files
/data1
/data2 ....

On this 'lappy', I have
/, /usr, /tmp and dynamically mount the NTFS/FAT32 partitions when needed (where data is stored).

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[otherego]

As you say - perhaps a little OTT for what I'm doing.

I may have a bash at converting to ext 3 tomorrow - I gather it IS possible to do so without reinstalling the distro (need to look more closely at that).

The only reason for using ext 2 was that was the only way I could get GRUB installed. Very weird.