Should legitimate businesses just move to a new private account ?

[howmuchtobid]

Ebay is clearly allowing businesses to trade from private accounts, we are all seeing it, Ebay is doing nothing about it.

So to be able to compete I guess moving to a private account is the only option for many.

[bojangled]

I'm pretty sure many have joined the dark side, don't blame them, can't deny I haven't thought about it. 
Why not, from here it really doesn't look like anything is being done.

I think more changes will be made re fee structures, hoping buyers fee isn't introduced. 
Also heard a few disgruntled Vinted Pro sellers, sales maybe initially good, but scams, CS and receiving funds is putting a few off. 

I'm staying for Christmas, then see what 2025 has to offer.

[hudsonsclothes]

I had toyed with the idea initially as I was, at the time only a month into selling and finding it hard to compete.

However the free until the New Year for Businesses selling pre-owned clothing (my main category) put a stop to even thinking about that, plus in spite of a lot of people's experiences on here, my sales and other numbers have improved quite dramatically since I started in August.

I think I am going to persevere and take advantage of the temporary (hopefully that changes) free selling of clothes and then watch and see what happens A) with the supposed increase in sales and numbers due to the new wallet function and B) when HMRC asks for information off everyone safe in the knowledge that I am registered for self-assessment and as a business on here.

[krafty-kreations]

I have thought about it also.

I will see what happens over the next few months but If things don't improve then I will more than likely just concentrate more on etsy.

[papso22]

Any any business that does that will be breaking consumer law.  Just because ebay turns a blind eye does not make it OK.

[carl-uk]

I’m a private seller. I’ve noticed this topic raised by many business sellers in various topics. I’ve just ignored it, and assumed they were just being petty. However, I must admit I have had a bit of an eye opener experience as to the level the problem must be.

Without even looking, I stumbled across a “private” seller, who had links in their item descriptions to their “about” etc. that was all linked to a business account. It was clearly the same business operating this private account. They weren’t even selling personal items on the “private” account, but many copies of the same brand new items.

Then, in the “You may also like” section of one of the items…

I spotted a “private” account who had apparently sold 400 copies of the same collectible item. But that’s not all. A closer look at their account shows they have 4 listings for the same item, under slightly different titles. Under one of those items, they had sold 965!

Next to the above was a listing for a 3D printed item – again from a “private” account. Of course they’re selling multiple quantities, and a variety of 3D printed items. This even fits HMRC’s definition of “making items to sell” qualifying as trading. Even if it wasn’t obvious in the listings that they themselves were 3D printing the items, they offer a “3D printing service”. Go on that item, and of the first 5 sponsored similar 3D printing service items, 4 were private sellers!

I can’t believe so many private accounts can openly offer services and get away with it.
Not to mention they’re almost certainly also breaching copyright laws for most of the items they print. I can’t imagine all the big studios and companies permitting every one that wants to the right to print out and sell any items from their franchises.

So I can see your frustrations, business sellers on here.

As a ray of hope, I think that a lot of these sellers are in for a rude awakening come next year, when they will be forced to provide a NINo. HMRC will have proof of the number of items and £ amount they are making. Particularly if they’ve tried hiding this under multiple accounts, which will then be linked.
A new user who hit the 30 items mark recently was not only required to provide their NINo, but government ID as well.
So, even if eBay themselves are still not going to invest resources in flagging all actual businesses as such, HMRC definitely will take action going forward when they have all the evidence. And eBay won’t want to get on the bad side of the government, so will have to step up their game!

[myriad*seller]

Many business sellers will be registered with HMRC though, so there is nothing really (apart from it being illegal) to stop them, even if they do get their sales figures reported to HMRC, if they are paying tax on their newly increased profits (due to not paying any fees) HMRC won't care that they aren't registered on eBay as a business.

I can see the site being flooded with "private" sellers selling new items because of the fee benefits they get

eBay registration isn't a matter for HMRC, its only a matter for Trading Standards. 

[carl-uk]

Thanks for the clarification myriad*seller. So it’s trading standards that businesses will cross, if they are using private accounts instead of business, not HMRC. Surely the government systems must be linked?

[ett1954]

"eBay registration isn't a matter for HMRC, its only a matter for Trading Standards." - Totally correct however, as it is illegal for a business to not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 it should also be a matter for eBay.

[the-nutwood-collection]

Trading Standards will have no interest whatsoever in businesses trading as private sellers on eBay.  Their resources have been cut to the bone and the only thing they're interested in is major sellers of counterfeit designer goods, tobacco products, vapes and dodgy tradespersons.  Even if they had the resources, I doubt that they'd be interested in a private seller on eBay taking sales away from me - a business seller who pays fees.  It's unfair - but Trading Standards aren't in the business of deciding what's fair and what's not fair.  Were I Trading Standards, I would just tell the complainer to sell on a private account.

eBay created this two-tier structure.  Why?  I have no idea.  I sell on Etsy, and it's the same fee for everyone.  Etsy aren't interested whether you're trading - that's between the seller and HMRC, they're just a platform and submit numbers to HMRC and leave them to deal with taxation issues.  eBay have the MBG - if the goods are counterfeit, then the buyer can easily get their money refunded.  Again, not an issue for Trading Standards because the buyer is protected.

[stormatic2015]

I have thought about this a lot recently and have openly said I am going to wait until next year and see what HMRC/EB do to combat this or the fallout and make a choice if I continue to sell on this platform.

Hypothetical, there would be two options that would change my mind on start a business on a private account as a business, or if i was a private-business I would change the account type to business.

* Removed the quantity from listings for Private sellers only. They don't need it, even if they do they can used the sell similar button. After all they have 300 free listings each month, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem for a genuine private seller if they have 2 or 3 of the same item.  True business seller will have to re-list 1 qty after each sale and that would get tedious and annoying and reach the 300 limit quickly forcing them to pay listing fee like a business with the annoyance, also limit to 1 qty of item instead of multiple sales.

* Remove the variation option. Same reason as above, private can use sell similar, I don't see any reason a private seller would have more than 5 of the same identical item legitimately if they didn't consider buying to sell, collectors might be a grey area in specific situations and tbh less of two evils. Variations will remove these private-business types that was pointed out with the PPE bag seller under a private account using qty and size in variations.

Honestly removing these for private sellers, I don't see as a huge issue, but it will really hamper any legit business trying to use a private account. 

[dch2112011]

Forgetting the legal aspect of denying consumer law, what i really cannot understand is ebay's attitude towards their own policies - Why write policy if there is no intention to enforce it to any extent ?

As a business  surely ebay can see that by allowing members to abuse ebay policy and benefit from fee free sales that ebay's revenue is diminished and diluted.

The only thought is could it be that more listings including those that are bizzarely allowed to repeat themselves month in month out for private sellers without generating any direct income attract third party revenue such as advertising ?

I cannot see any other logic to allowing the total disregard of their own policy - 

What possible gain financially can there be for a private seller  not selling items clogging up ebay search for years on end ? 

What possible financial gain can there be for ebay openly encouraging businesses to trade on private accounts ?

Are they afraid that there are so many listings that remain for free indefinately and so many business sellers using private accounts that if they followed their own policies the proclaimed size of ebay would shrink so dramatically that it would reduce ebay's value ?

In answer to the OP's question undoubtedly the answer is yes - ebay encourage trading on personal accounts - the latest advice to hmrc and trading standards is to introduce education to school children so that they can avoid rogue trading on platforms as part of the national curriculum - about sums up the effort being put into consumer law and sellers abusing ebay' policy

[bojangled]

The question came up, I believe on this thread, that if a business seller were trade on a private account could they check the DSR requirements by simply adding contact details on a listing description and accepting returns. 
I had a browse in the new  'local' options yesterday, and there was a very busy local business to me doing exactly that. 
Jo

[wyntersemporium]

Same here with HMRC 

[papso22]

---

@bojangled wrote:

The question came up, I believe on this thread, that if a business seller were trade on a private account could they check the DSR requirements by simply adding contact details on a listing description and accepting returns. 
I had a browse in the new  'local' options yesterday, and there was a very busy local business to me doing exactly that. 
Jo

---

It just gets worse doesn't it!  The ebay policy of no contact details (apart from  business ones), on a listing was to prevent fee avoidance, the 'fee avoidance' policy should still apply but to the much broader fee avoidance of 'private' sellers not paying fees at all. 

Perhaps it needs a whole new clearer policy on fee avoidance as a subject which would include registering as a business so as to pay the right fees.  I.e focus on what should surely matter most to ebay. 

Like others I that ebay ignores it's own policies on legal regulations requiring a  business account but do they really not care about fee avoidance?

[the_book_seekers]

I've said it elsewhere, make on line sites responsible for their users complying with UK laws and fine them if they don't. 

[myriad*seller]

eBay do not allow contact details in the body of the listing and will remove all listings showing contact details unless on a business seller account

It is NOT possible to comply with the law on a private account for this reason 

[british-ceramics-and-paintings]

In years gone by I would have agreed with you however these days it seems you can get away with most things on here.

[re-cycle.wight]

It's something that's really affecting me now. Most items I sell are in the £250-£1000 price range.  To have to pay 12.5% (or whatever it is), whist some other sellers are blatantly businesses doing similar, with private accounts. This is not creating a level playing field, especially when I'm often paying £50-£100 fees per item!   

[bojangled]

@myriad*seller 

As much as I know you are correct in T&C we all agreed to, it's not happening.