Ebay forces upgrade to Business due to new HMRC regulations

[sportex-uk]

Hi All.

I've received an email from ebay forcing me to switch to business account due to the volume of my recent sales. Customer service explained that I exceeded £1800 in one month, so they act in line with new HMRC regulations. The email is a bit threatening: "We need you to make these changes to your account within the next 21 days. If you don’t, your selling privileges may be blocked. This includes listings ended and loss of selling history."

However, As I'm not ready to go business and I consider my increased activity as temporary, Customer Service advised that if reduce my sales volume, I can stay private. Has any of you passed through this process?

Also, what happensto your existing promo listings if you switch to business? Are they allowed to continue on promo terms and with 'no returns accepted' until they sell or end?

[upminster1959]

I took your advise and eBay shut down my account and I cannot get it reinstated. I not too bothered as I was only selling a few hundred pounds a year. My question to you is for the people who need the money and have taken your advise. What should they do?

[therenewalworkshopltd]

If Ebay are telling you to change to a business account, then you don't really have much choice.

You can try and prove that you are not a business, but without knowing exactly what they are basing it on, nor what you have actually sold, nobody can really advise you.

But at the end of the day, if they close your account, then you don't sell on Ebay any more.  End of!

But I note that you are still selling things on this account.....

If you have another and they have closed it, it really is only a matter of time before they find this one as well and close it.

[sheffieldsvintage]

Ooops looks like you've sadly been duped by an Ebay specialist (not an actual specialist)

[shopping-ferret]

Exactly. A good deal of private sellers are not giving the full details of their selling activity when complaining here. I don't believe for one minute Ebay force small sellers who fall within the permitted criteria to change to a business account. The same dishonesty they display pretending they're not a business, they display here too by not revealing the full facts. I'm sure Ebay will look over a seller's activity to determine whether they should close an account down. They probably do make mistakes but maybe they're taking action against genuine private sellers but who have multiple accounts (likely in order to try and conceal their sales volume). As if they think that's going to work for much longer, although they certainly got their money's worth for many years!!

[craze_chris]

I’m sure many people game the system

Look at my account !! My one and only and always has been .. I’m a private seller that eBay now wants to label as a business all of £722.00 sold last year ..




Chris

[bojangled]

@craze_chris I do find this bizarre, the amount of private sellers that are being asked to upgrade with value of sales like yours. When there are visible incorrectly registered businesses sellers with 1000’s of listings totally unknown amounts and basically free loading.

[shopping-ferret]

Has this been your only seller account and what is the total number of items you sold within the valid period as that counts too?

[shopping-ferret]

In that case, it seems like Ebay have made an error.  They do make mistakes, so you should appeal this.  Good luck with it.

[4_bathrooms]

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@shopping-ferret wrote:

In that case, it seems like Ebay have made an error.  They do make mistakes, so you should appeal this.  Good luck with it.

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There is likely no official appeals process when eBay decides a private seller should be registered as a business seller. The user's options are seemingly to "upgrade" to a business account or have their selling privileges restricted until they do. As per my earlier post @craze_chris needs to try to publicly contact eBay via Twitter/X, Facebook or some other social media platform that eBay has a presence on. 

It really is ridiculous that many (not all) of the users who have recently reported being forced into "upgrading" show absolutely no sign of ever having run a business via their account. However, there are posters in other recent threads who are clearly trading via private accounts - even admitting as much - yet eBay is seemingly completely blind to their activities.

[vintique*violet]

It really is ridiculous that many (not all) of the users who have recently reported being forced into "upgrading" show absolutely no sign of ever having run a business via their account. However, there are posters in other recent threads who are clearly trading via private accounts - even admitting as much - yet eBay is seemingly completely blind to their activities.

There lies the problem which has caused discord, division and confusion. 

It is actually eBays issue to deal with ( for many years) so why haven't they? 

It appears going after the little private seller and forcing them to jump through hoops to continue is a form of coercion , how can that be allowed? There must be some redress? 

Plus for eBay to comply with the Gov rules for online selling etc and they are sharing the data with HMRC,  how would a GENUINE private seller fair when they see the data showing an eBay account which has been forced to  register as a business account and yet they are not a legitimate registered business with HMRC?

@4_bathrooms 

[4_bathrooms]

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@vintique*violet wrote:

There lies the problem which has caused discord, division and confusion. 

It is actually eBays issue to deal with ( for many years) so why haven't they? 

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eBay created the problem by fleecing business sellers over many years. I suspect eBay knew many of the businesses illegally trading through private accounts would not be viable if they were paying the level of fees they were charging businesses. So, eBay turned a blind eye to the practice as receiving some fees from these improperly registered businesses was preferable to receiving no fees from them at all.

I doubt the timing of eBay's "clampdown" against such traders is any coincidence. eBay no longer receives any final value fees from private sales which means - other than the BPF - they don't receive any fees when a trader abusively operates via the wrong type of account either. I remember receiving one of those email notifications eBay sends out to sellers when the BPF was announced mentioning that "Buyer Protection" was provided for free to business sellers which also announced eBay would be clamping down on businesses trading via the wrong type of account. I just don't understand the approach they are taking - they're like a SWAT team blindly charging into action without a care in the world about how much collateral damage they cause as long as they get at least some of the bad guys.

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@vintique*violet wrote:

Plus for eBay to comply with the Gov rules for online selling etc and they are sharing the data with HMRC,  how would a GENUINE private seller fair when they see the data showing an eBay account which has been forced to  register as a business account and yet they are not a legitimate registered business with HMRC?

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I have no idea if the account type is included in the digital sales report but I suspect it isn't. However, the reporting rules might explain some cases where eBay have tried to force a private account holder to "upgrade". I remember seeing at least one report of someone with a private and a business account being told they had to "upgrade" their private account to a business one on the sole basis their other account was a business account. The OECD rules mean eBay is obliged to request a NINO from sole traders and private sellers if they cross either threshold; the OECD's terminology for both is "individuals". Whilst eBay's demand in this scenario is incorrect I can see where the confusion might arise; i.e. both accounts belong to the same natural person. That doesn't appear to be the case for @craze_chris however as they have stated the account they have posted from is the only account they have. 
   

[craze_chris]

Not that I am getting old and grouchy at all …..but it is so damm annoying to be greeted by eBay when I have phoned them ‘ good day thank you for being an eBay customer for 22 years ‘ thanks for ‘reaching out’ to us .. oh and by the way we are labelling you as a business now !!!

This is obviously after going through several ‘specialist teams’


Chris

[shopping-ferret]

So you're unable to contest this?

I want to know what criteria Ebay are using when selecting private sellers to tell them they must register as a business? There's a seller who's got over 600 listings, most of which are new clothing in all shapes and sizes and some listings with multiple stock. Why is SHE still trading as a private seller, yet you've been selected?? Are they doing it by username alphabetical order? (Hers starts with a 'U'!)

[theelench]

I doubt ebay does things alphabetically, it doesn't see sellers as people, just numbers.  I'd suggest ebay is selecting random private sellers in order of lowest value first.  Those who have contributed least to ebays profits are being used to 'prove' that it is trying to tackle the problem, while leaving their bigger fish untouched.

Some of the criteria below might fit. 

Stupid

Erroneous

Ludicrous

Foolish

Selective

Erratic

Random

Vindictive

Insane

Nonsense

Glitchy

Haven't I read that although ebay doesn't have to give sellers any reasons for its actions, there is a way for them to obtain the data that ebay holds on them?   

If they are sufficiently interested and get hold of that data, they may find it is inaccurate?  If so they could appeal direct to the CEO of .uk, over the heads of CS / bots and managers?

[jonat_broad]

Its a subject access request.

I believe part of this is they would required to tell you of any lists you are present on. For example  list headed 'looks like a business' - they'd have to advise you of that. Though they wouldn't have to tell you the logic that puts you on that list.

[shopping-ferret]

Actually that makes sense! But Ebay are a business and not a charitable organisation to help people make money for themselves, so profit IS king!

[theelench]

I didn't say that ebay was a charity or that it shouldn't make a profit.

but it should do it by putting its own house in order and cracking down on criminal businesses, NOT innocent private sellers.

When you think about it most of the criminality on ebay revolves around business sellers mis-representing themselves as both sellers and buyers with ebay making it so easy for them to do both.

[papso22]

Could you please expand on your final paragraph?

I would say by far the biggest 'criminality' is by businesses pretending to be private sellers, but I am not sure you meant that.

Even though there are undoubtedly businesses that buy on private accounts, I am not sure what harm that actually does to sellers, unlike the sellers who masquerade as private when they are really businesses.

[santlache_sales]

(Private Sellers) encouraged by ebay, for people to develop their activity and move their business to more serious grounds.

Where does it say that in any of eBay refs and terms ?

It doesn't, you have just made it up.

I'm afraid you are in the wrong place for sympathy, the business people who you are likely undercutting.

[santlache_sales]

With an ebay income of 1800 a month, and then trying to plead they are not a business, as many have noted already, is taking the p with a capital P.