The Beeb's just noticed W10's snooping. And hardly anyone seems to care...

[otherego]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35251484

Windows 10's data slurping is hardly new news. I've even wondered out loud (or waffled on these boards, anyway), why the mainstream media have totally ignored this - this - oh heck, I think "scandal" is a suitable word.

The article referenced above is already about to drop off the BBC's "most popular" list.

People really don't seem that concerned.

I refuse to give up on my privacy, or to accept that, "Privacy's dead - get over it."

Increasingly, I get the horrible feeling that most people simply don't care.

There's plenty of information on the internet for the three people who might bother to look.

W10 is slurping up huge quantities of information ( which is probably being stored for ever on US servers, but that's yet another story.) I really don't like what they're doing - and who knows exactly what is being collected, how long they will hang on to it and what it might, eventually, be used/abused for?

By removing control over updates from users, and making it decidedly difficult to figure out exactly what they do, Microsoft seems to me to have shown a determination to increase its control over people's computers. Goodness knows where this could lead.

An improved "user experience" (bleurgh) perhaps?

A notification that, "Your computer was restarted to install important updates. Please enter your credit card details to continue"?

"For your protection, the following programs have been uninstalled from your computer. For replacements, please visit the Windows Store (or whatever)?

"Some of the videos on your hard drive appear to have circumvented DRM. For your safety and convenience, we have removed them and referred the matter to the relevant authorities." ("Using the supposedly non-personally identifiable information we have obtained from you.")

It would be nice to think that MS wouldn't go that far, but really, users seem to be giving them carte blanche to hoover up what data they like and to impose whatever updates they wish - and to interfere with users' computers to their (Microsoft's) little hearts' content.

Sure, it's a nice operating system in many ways. I just don't think it's worth the cost in terms of my privacy or the loss of control over my computing activities.

/Rant over.

For now.

[cee-dee]

Notice this?:-

It is possible to increase the privacy controls in Windows 10 by setting the feedback option to Basic, so that activity data is not sent to Microsoft - bar error reports.

[otherego]

One really needs to look much, much more deeply into it. Just one little example:

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/even-when-told-not-to-windows-10-just-cant-sto...

When you install W10, its default settings are, I understand, for maximum slurping. How many folk actually bother to change these - or even realise what's going on, or what they can do about it?

The option to control privacy settings (at least to an extent) is arguably not made all that clear during an installation process which seems to encourage a "default" option. I honestly forget - but have a horrible feeling this is shown as "Recommended."

The other problem is the lack of control over updates.

Let's face it. They could use the update system to make any changes they liked. A year or two ago, I'd have been inclined to think - so what?

The fact that they are being a little less than transparent about exactly what updates do, and that in any case, one has no choice over installing the things in W 10, really worries me now.

It's also worth doing a little research into the extraordinary efforts they're making to persuade Windows 7 and 8.1 users to accept the free W10. There have even been instances of folk finding their computers switched to W10 through auto-updates (I honestly don't understand this - surely there would have been a licence agreement thingie? - but it seems to have happened.)

Other, arguably less than  computer-literate folk, have simpy and unthinkingly installed the new version.

And have you seen all the nagging in W7 and 8.1 to try to get you to upgrade? Tell it to go away, delete the offending update (which offers the nag dialogue), and wait for another to pitch up.

They might, of course, be offering this selflessly in the interests of their Windows 7 and 8 users, with no thought of how they themselves might benefit from this in the long run, or establish seriously positive control over the future computing of users who accept their offers.

It could all be totally innocent, but we've no way of knowing. Why on earth do people gamble on this sort of thing?

[otherego]

Take a squiz at this (lots more out there.)

https://fix10.isleaked.com/

My mistake. The terminology used with respect to privacy settings during installation is "Express" or "Custom."

Take a look at how prominent (ha!) the "Custom" setting is.

I've a horrible feeling that most people go for "Get going fast." And that MS suspects that that is just what they would do.

It's horrible. It really is. (All IMHO, of course - which I suppose needs to be added in this day and age.)

[fallen-archie]

You are right to be concerned, the constant snooping that can occur will leave few secrets unless you take the necessary precautions to protect yourself, people are a tad lazy when it comes to housekeeping and computers, but do your homework and it is still possible to prevent much that concerns you. 

[otherego]

I really hope it proves possible to continue preventing much of the worrying bits, Archie.

Trouble is   carte blanche in updates would allow MS (or the maintainers of any OS, I suppose), to do whatever they considered necessary to subvert users' attempts to assert their preferences (not to mention their civilised rights.)

What's worse is that hardly anybody actually seems to care. I shudder to think whither we're headed.

An early night and a soothingly impossible crossword (which for me is most of them) I think...

[cee-dee]

You can actually turn the auto updates off by changing Automatic to Notify to restart.

You can also block some updates but you have to install them first then uninstall them.

[artful_dodgings]

Windows 10 must be avoided at all costs ! It is the spawning of Lucifer ! !

Festoon your monitor with garlic, and affix a small silver crucifix to the console. (As a standby, have a phial of Holy Water in readiness).

Should you accidentally click on that infuriating and intrusive W10 download pop-up, I'm afraid the only solution to obliterate this evil and malevolent manifestation, is to take your pc outdoors in a heavy downpour, and hammer an iron stake through the keyboard.

Drastic maybe, but once you have been infected with this noxious virus, it's the only solution for your well-being and sanity.

[otherego]

As far as I can make out, there's no simple way of turning automatic updates off in Windows 10. I'm thinking of the Home edition, which I suspect will predominate on these august boards.

I'd want to stop unwanted updates before they install, to be absolutely honest.

The "Pro" version may, if I understand it correctly, permit updates to be deferred - but not indefinitely.

It looks as if it might be possible to turn automatic updates off altogether in "Services." This is a little drastic.

Security updates are pretty much essential. Feature and performance updates are often desirable. The problem with W10, of course, is that nobody knows yet exactly where MS plans to take this. (MS probably hasn't decided - still prodding the masses to get some idea of what they - MS - can get away with.)

It would be useful to be able to choose which updates to allow. This probably applies particularly to "feature updates" - which could change anything from the User Interface to the programs MS thinks I should be allowed to run to the videos and music they think I should have access to.

More promisingly, there seems to be a tool provided by MS which allows one to see what updates are available, and hide unwanted updates. I'm honestly a little wary of this, as it seems to run counter to MS's evident intentions - but worth a mention. I'd treat it with a degree of caution, though.

More here:

http://www.redmondpie.com/disable-turn-off-automatic-updates-in-windows-10-heres-how/

W10's ability to remove programs during updates ain't a figment of my imagination, sadly:

http://www.ghacks.net/2015/11/24/beware-latest-windows-10-update-may-remove-programs-automatically/

Goodness knows where that might lead.

MS already seems to be slurping a spectacular amount of data from users:

http://www.ghacks.net/2016/01/05/microsoft-may-be-collecting-more-data-than-initially-thought/

All this might, of course, be to "improve the user experience." I remain unconvinced.

Their verging-on-dirty-tricks to get folk to upgrade deepen my suspicions:

http://www.ghacks.net/2015/12/12/get-windows-10-prompt-without-no-thanks-option/

(And no, I don't believe that absolutely everyone will see through this and simply close the offending window.)

MS is simply not behaving in what I would consider a trustworthy manner.

Much of the problem remains the fact that they don't seem to be 100% keen to show exactly what updates involve. You need to look it up. Hardly reliable behaviour.

Splendid post by artful_dodgings - even if it is ironic in intention!

Don't drive a stake through your computer. I need a younger one, and will exorcise W10 far more constructively by wiping the hard drive with DBAN prior to installing Linux Mint.

[cee-dee]

I've not got Win 10 I'm using Win 7 and I uninstalled the "upate" with the the Win 10 upgrade. After reading what you and others were saying about Win10, I decided to stick with Win 7 for now.

However, I continue to read about Win 10 and I wonder what you think of one of the pages:-

http://www.redmondpie.com/disable-turn-off-automatic-updates-in-windows-10-heres-how/

There are others with some different ideas but too many links get confusing I think.

[otherego]

Ah - yes, so your concern is keeping the updates producing the nag to "upgrade." I spent a distinctly unrewarding weekend removing all the W7 telemetry and associated rubbish some time ago, along with the update nagging, and simply haven't bothered booting the machines since. Too hard!

Once one's stuck with W10, I'm not convinced that further updates can be avoided. The workarounds suggested on that page involve preventing updates altogether (probably not a good idea), or downloading some tool which might or might not be OK - and whose purpose I might have misunderstood, anyway.

In the final analysis, I think we're in for a rough ride. The increasing push towards cloud computing is going to be difficult to resist, and I believe it involves enormous privacy, and even security, implications. That's probably a matter for another thread - possibly on the tech board.

I'm also concerned that MS might be edging towards a subscription system. While the core system might remain free, there seems nothing to stop their disabling locally installed programs - and offering subscription-based alternatives.

Hopefully, my suspicions will prove wide of the mark.

[cee-dee]

There are other work-arounds which don't stop the updates downloading, they hold up the install. The install involves a restart which could come at an inconvenient time if you're in the middle of something. If, when you've installed the updates and you find something you don't like, you can unistall it and block it from downloading again.

As you say, too much like hard work?

With Win 7, to stop the nagging to "upgrade", you uninstall the update that provokes the nag which is what I did before the Win 10 nagging started in the first place.

Surely, as time goes on someone will come up with a program which will gve the user back more control?

[al**bear]

Windows now playing nasty

You will get Windows 10

http://www.techworm.net/2016/01/microsoft-windows-10-upgrade-compulsory-to-download.html

Microsoft is getting more and more aggressive with its ‘Convert World To Windows 10’ campaign that it has now become absurdly brazen. In the latest update, Microsoft is pushing up its “Get Windows 10” app to computers running Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 without any option to reject it.

If you are a Windows 7/8.1 PC/laptop owner and you haven’t yet disabled the Get Windows 10 app, the prompt linked to the upgrade is now recommending you to install the new OS and even gives you two different options viz, upgrade now and start download, upgrade later. Microsoft has now removed the ‘no’ completely.

[al**bear]

How to get rid of the update to windows 10 icon/reminder from your PC or Laptop

1- Go to Control Panel > Programs and Features > Installed Updates.

2- Do a search for KB3035583, double-click it, and then click Yes, to uninstall the update.

Reboot

[cee-dee]

Fortunately I uninstalled that months back.

I've just checked Windows updates....... 22 updates..... 172Mb...... (a lot are for Office).

I may be some time......

[al**bear]

If the above doesn't work you need to do this

only do this AT YOUR OWN RISK

On some systems the file GWX.exe remains in /Windows/SysWOW64. To remove that file, you need to take ownership of the folder, a description of an easy way can be found here found here , a method that requires some more work can be found here. Once you’ve taken ownership, you can delete the GWX.exe file.

In order to make sure Windows doesn’t install KB3035583 again with the next round of updates, uncheck “Give me recommended updates the same way I receive important updates”. This will make sure the update will be listed under the “Optional” updates and no longer automatically install.

If you want the update to disappear entirely, right-click the update and choose Hide Update in the contextual menu of the KB3035583 update. Now you should be be saved from the notifications, don’t forget to read our site to know when Windows 10 is ready to install.

[al**bear]

Just updated Windows 12 important, 1 optional and they tried to sneak KB3035583 update. back in again

[cee-dee]

Done my updates, no sign of KB3035583.

[suzieseaside]

Maybe this is of some use to anyone who wants to downgrade from Windows 10 and get back 7 or 8

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/how-to/windows/how-downgrade-windows-10-uninstall-win-10-reinstall-window...