The Hillsborough inquest

[blackburn_stevie]

The 96 dead left families devastated and I understand the torment that they feel about losing loved ones so unexpectedly. But this inquest is being held to try to find out what caused the accident. I dare say that if ever a finger can be pointed at a definitive cause, then lots of No win- no fee lawyers will have a field day. That's one reason why I don't think that a result will ever be found.

And here's another thing, This inquest is all about finding the cause of the incident so I fail to see what purpose is being served by all the mums, dads, aunties, uncles, brothers and sisters standing up at the inquest and spending hour upon hour saying what wonderful kids they had. All very moving and it's the kind of thing that needs to be said, but is the right time and place to voice your feelings an inquest into the cause?

The reason for saying this is that this inquest is going to cost millions due to the amount of time spent between opening speeches and the final findings. How much time and money would be saved if the inquest stuck to its mandate and solved the issue?

[cee-dee]

Here's the solution:-

1/ the design of the stadium was not good, however, it was known about and people actually expressed some reservations about going but went there anyway.

2/ the poor unfortunates were pushed from behind, those at the back did the pushing and crushing so why ain't they facing criticism and/or charges?

The conclusion is that a combination of circumstances led to the "disaster" and no amount of the "blame game" is either going to bring those people back or "get justice" because in the eyes of those seeking it ("justice"), it comes down to blaming anyone except those who actually caused the "problem".

That said, they should all move on and be done with it.

[sir_arthur_strebe-grebling]

And we all know that there is only one verdict that the families will accept - that their relatives were murdered by Mrs Thatcher ordering the South Yorkshire Police to crush them - and if the jury comes to any other conclusion they will just continue their campaign for revenge.

[al**bear]

Main point is

WHY WERE $! FANS allowed to Die needlessly, after orders were given by unknown Senior Police Officer to stop trying resuscitate them

Why were hundreds of pieces of information erased and changed, yet again by orders of Senior Officers, in Police Officers note books

Which Government Official in THATCHERS office, orchestrated the overNight smear campaign passed to the Media, to help push blame onto fans and protect the Police

Which Senior Police Officers 'off the record' briefed certain Tory papers, about dead Fans being robbed and urinated on, despicable false allegations btw

And why didn't Thatchers Government hold a full and open Public inquiry into the incident.

[al**bear]

That should have said

WHY WERE 41 FANS allowed to Die needlessly

[merehazle]

Final findings?

To lie about what happened is bad enough but to then execute a Goebbels style propaganda campaign against the deceased takes a unique brand of evil IMO.

The pain the victims families must feel to this day is immeasurable. How they have kept their dignity is astonishing and they are a credit to themselves, their city and their club.

[cee-dee]

You're losing track of what happened. see #2.

Everything else is part of the blame game to blame someone, anyone except the root cause.

[merehazle]

What a strange country we live in: where the MPS, Police, Media, Bankers, comply with different rules.

When they break the law they get to have a long inquiry.

When the rest of us break the law the police are making an early morning raid the next day. 

How much time and money would be saved if we were all treated in the same way?

[joe_bloggs*]

Over a third of the Hillsborough disaster victims were children or teenagers,

But they were still blamed by top Tories for their own deaths:

Top Tory Bernard Ingham calls relatives of Hillsborough victims ‘contemptible’

Who said the Tory party had changed?

http://tompride.wordpress.com/

[merehazle]

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@sir_arthur_strebe-grebling wrote:

And we all know that there is only one verdict that the families will accept - that their relatives were murdered by Mrs Thatcher ordering the South Yorkshire Police to crush them - and if the jury comes to any other conclusion they will just continue their campaign for revenge.

---

Are you sure? Just a little unfair in IMO.   Then my #6  might be considered a little unfair?

But new documents state conclusively that  ''The Liverpool fans neither caused nor contributed to the 96 deaths''.

They would have certainly grown up stronger had Thatcher not snatched their milk. 

[0125arwen]

So who crushed the victims then?.

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@merehazle wrote:

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@sir_arthur_strebe-grebling wrote:

And we all know that there is only one verdict that the families will accept - that their relatives were murdered by Mrs Thatcher ordering the South Yorkshire Police to crush them - and if the jury comes to any other conclusion they will just continue their campaign for revenge.

---

Are you sure? Just a little unfair in IMO.   Then my #6  might be considered a little unfair?

But new documents state conclusively that  ''The Liverpool fans neither caused nor contributed to the 96 deaths''.

They would have certainly grown up stronger had Thatcher not snatched their milk. 

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[merehazle]

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@0125arwen wrote:

So who crushed the victims then?.

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@merehazle wrote:

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@sir_arthur_strebe-grebling wrote:

And we all know that there is only one verdict that the families will accept - that their relatives were murdered by Mrs Thatcher ordering the South Yorkshire Police to crush them - and if the jury comes to any other conclusion they will just continue their campaign for revenge.

---

Are you sure? Just a little unfair in IMO.   Then my #6  might be considered a little unfair?

But new documents state conclusively that  ''The Liverpool fans neither caused nor contributed to the 96 deaths''.

They would have certainly grown up stronger had Thatcher not snatched their milk. 

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Heh, difficult to work out isn't it arwen?

Wasn't it something to do with the miss - management of the gates and crowd. The fans did not plan it , so they did not contribute to it. Contribution is voluntarily, not accidentally.

Good night. 

[0125arwen]

We must have very different definitions of the word ''contribute'' then.

I hope the family get answers but i doubt they will.

[cee-dee]

As was said earlier in this thread, a large group of people want to wholly and completely blame people who didn't physically contribute to anything.

Just for a moment try to imagine being in a crowd and people behind you are pushing you, you're trying to resist and trying to get them to stop pushing.................. in vain..........

[bankhaunter]

It's fairly easy to blame the people in the crowd by ignoring the fact they are imperfect humans and consider they should act like programmed robots.

Crowd dynamics is a science in which the behaviour of large crowds has been studied and the way they act is well known hence the need for proper crowd control being paramount, it is recognised that large crowds are dangerous places to be in.

Since how a crowd behaves is well known, a failure to exercise proper control which then leads to an accident can only be placed on the shoulders of those whose job it is to do the controlling.

Blaming the crowd is like blaming the water if a dam breaks.

[bankhaunter]

I forgot, there is an interesting article here.

http://www.safegapyear.co.uk/dangers-large-festival-crowds-over-370-die-cambodia

[merehazle]

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@joe_bloggs* wrote:

Over a third of the Hillsborough disaster victims were children or teenagers,

But they were still blamed by top Tories for their own deaths:

Top Tory Bernard Ingham calls relatives of Hillsborough victims ‘contemptible’

Who said the Tory party had changed?

http://tompride.wordpress.com/

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'Top Tory Bernard Ingham said that. And he is still a Top Tory?  Well after Maria Miller that might not be so surprising.

 'Who said the Tory party had changed'    Well, have any of the three main parties changed?

We have a corrupt system of government. We have a corrupt police force. We have a corrupt media. We have corrupt politicians and corrupt civil servants. The whole sorry mess is a pile of sh-- into which well intentioned and principled people disappear on a regular basis and reappear covered in the brown stuff, usually with their pockets full of cash and a title or two. The establishment closes ranks whenever it is caught with its pants down. 

What an absolute **bleep** Cameron is. His party had a good boost from a very well received budget, they were riding high and all the **bleep** needed to do was keep their noses clean until the election but NO, Miller blew it and they dithered. He should have sacked her on the spot!!! But NO, as usual you took the public for fools as you closed ranks on one of your own.

And she certainly was one of YOUR own.