Royal Marine

[ronnybabes]

This is something I simply cannot fathom out, my thoughts, feelings, and sense of right, and wrong, are so muddled up, and intertwined, that I find myself sympathetic to all points of view.

Never have I been so confused, and unable to form a definitive opinion once all the arguments, and debates go around in my head.

The badly wounded Taliban insurgent was by all accounts murdered/executed by a Royal Marine.

There is also little doubt that if the boot was on the other foot, the Marine in question would have suffered a more grotesque, painful, and drawn out death by the Taliban.

Indeed, the Taliban routinely string up the body parts of our dead soldiers on trees to emphasise these horrendous barbaric acts.

Our Armed Forces like to be seen to maintain a high standard of discipline, and we rightly adhere to the codes and rules of the Geneva convention.

The Taliban however, do not.

So, on the one hand we have a side that acts with propriety, and one side that does not.

Now, we have a soldier who has served with distinction in Afghanistan on several occasions. One can only wonder at his mindset, when every day he will wake up knowing that if he falls into the hands of the Taliban, he will suuffer the most horrendous brutish torture, and eventual killing imagineable, from his skin being peeled from his body while still alive, to dismembering.

Yet, he did debase himself almost to their level while serving in the Royal Marines.

It was an execution.

I feel repulsed by his wanton act, ...... and yet I cannot help feel sadness, and sympathy for this Marine.

Compare his 10 year sentence to the sentence of baby P's mother who only served a few years.

Bin Laden was shot in his own bedroom, no investigation there.

As for naming him, I have definite views on this subject.

His Family can now live in fear of retaliation for the foreseeable future, is there anyone who thinks otherwise?

I think not.

His Family must now be fearful for their lives.

What a terrible and badly thought out decision by this Judge.

[**forum-decorum**]

A moving post Ronny,

Reading your post only strengthens my faith in God and his promises. Makes me have no doubt at all he all war is wrong and look forward to a time where there is only a righteous world to live in.

It sickens me to know that one man can do that to another and visa versa.

[blackburn_stevie]

Like Ronny, I have sympathy all round in this situation.

But how about looking at it from a different viewpoint for a minute. Some of you know that I badly damaged my spine during a parachute jump while I was in the Army. That's why I'm a miserable sod most of the time. Now, I don't know what "Badly injured" means in the reports that we have read about this story but I know that if this Royal Marine had been standing over me just after I landed with his rifle in his hands, I would have been delighted if he had put a round through my brain.

We can't get an answer from the guy that got shot but I'll lay £1 to a penny that he would rather be out of it than a vegetable for life.

Just my thoughts on it.

[papko]

When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains 
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
So-oldier of the Queen!

 Kipling 

[margaret*e]

Like you, Ronny, I have mixed feelings.

I know those men had been under terrible stress preceding this incident, though I can't condone shooting an innocent man.

Who knows what they would do under terrible conditions on the spur of the moment.

My Grandson was there for 6 months, I'm trying to imagine how we would feel if he was involved in something like this.

We've seen men coming home from all battles with terrible mental problems.

Sorry if that's a bit rambling, I'm trying to figure out my feelings.

As for naming him, I daresay it would be easy enough to find out who he was.

[blackburn_stevie]

Marge ..... Just asking here. Where do you get "Innocent" from in your second line?

[margaret*e]

I didn't realise I had said innocent, it was early.

[blackburn_stevie]

papko ..... That ditty was written donkey's years ago and goes to show what the Afghanis were like even back then. But here is a simple little fact for you. Afghanistan has NEVER been over-run or captured by an enemy force of soldiers. There may have been changes to the country's boundaries brought about by internal politics but NEVER by armed conflict.

[blackburn_stevie]

OK, Marge. I'll let you off, lol

[ronnybabes]

You see Margaret, (and a very good correction point Stevie) if it was the other way round, he would've been revered as a hero by the Taliban, there would have been no recriminations, investigations, he is a soldier fighting for his Country in a war.. end of!

Here in the UK we train our Soldiiers for war, which inevitably means "to kill" and then are surprised when one, or two crack under horrendous pressure.

While I am not condoning his actions, or justifying them, I am making an effort to understand them.

As for naming him, I dare say you are right Margaret, but why make it easy for them?

[saasher2012]

I agree with your sentiments. I would also like to point out I don't condone the action of murder! On the other hand, how many soldiers have shown compassion to the enemy turned their backs& been killed for it.

[blackburn_stevie]

I wonder how many Taliban fighters have given First Aid to a British soldier found wounded on the field of battle?

[saasher2012]

And how many of our military medics have been killed trying to save lives on both sides?

[tommy.irene]

My husband's not a murderer, says wife of marine jailed for executing Taliban insurgent 

• Sergeant Alexander Blackman was given a life sentence 
  
• The soldier must serve a minimum of ten years
• His wife Claire has criticised the sentence

Jailed: Royal Marine Sergeant Alexander Blackman was given a 10-year minimum life sentence

The wife of a marine jailed for executing a Taliban fighter has denied that he is a murderer.

Sergeant Alexander Blackman was given a life sentence for the killing earlier this month. 

Video footage played at his trial showed Sgt Blackman shooting dead the captured insurgent at close range. The soldier, known throughout his trial as Marine A, must serve a minimum of ten years.

The head of the Armed Forces, General Sir Nick Houghton, was extremely critical of Sgt Blackman’s conduct, insisting he had committed a ‘heinous crime’ and that ‘murder is murder’.

But his wife Claire has criticised the sentence, insisting that her husband must not be compared to a common murderer.

‘He’s held his hands up,’ she said. ‘What he has not done in my eyes is commit murder. He genuinely thought, and I have absolutely no reason to disbelieve him, that that insurgent was already dead.’

She said her husband is ashamed of his actions, and that his behaviour was a moment of madness brought on by the mental strain of active service.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2523587/My-husbands-murderer-says-wife-marine-jailed-executi... 

[saasher2012]

HARSH sentence?

[papko]

@Steve 

people in britain forget , but the British foughht 3 wars with the Afghans in Victorian times , , and the Afghans got the better of two of them .

 In fact there was one battle if I recollect rightly , which is the most glorious in Afghan history , when they crushed a British Army .

 "there equivalent of Zulu I suppose "

I think Alexander the Great gave them a few good hidings and Genghis Khan or his grandosns , gave them a couple of whackings , but it has always been a hard country to conquer , as the mountainous terrain , and the vindictive feuding nature of the tribesfolk , make it possible for one a determined , chap at the top of a hill , can pin a whole company down for days on end .

[lhasa.two]

He broke the rules of the Geneva Convention and he knew it, no excuse, particularly as his life was not under threat.

All military personnel have it drilled in to them when training and again before deployment not to break the rules of the Convention.

It doesn't matter how the other side behave, it's how we behave as we are a country who signed up to the Convention.

What is so sad is that he's ruined his life in the Royal Marines with a dishonourable discharge, no pension and a long prison sentence, leaving his wife and children to fend for themselves in his absence, although the RM "family" will help her out financially. 

As it was a military court martial I don't agree with naming him by the English civilian judge. In the past this has never happened so I don't understand why it happened this time except that it was the first time a Royal Marine has been charged with this offence.

[ronnybabes]

Governments start wars, and if things go wrong these decision makers hardly ever suffer, but they do bask in their victory.

Soldiers die, are maimed in conflicts they never ever choose. The Government give our troops a wide licence to kill when things go okay, but they back away in exaggerated horror if any individual in the ranks break the laws of war.

This is the nasty paradox that has engulfed this Marine, his undoubted misdeeds were caught on camera, and therefore could not be ignored.

So he was found guilty and sentenced accordingly.

In my opinion this is just.....  and also unjust.

The Public are not condoning his actions, just calling for a littlle sympathy, and a slightly more lenient sentence. We have to stay within the law, but that law should be flexible and merciful.

[saasher2012]

Very well put! I would also add, it's all very well for us sitting at home in our cosy armchairs, we know nothing of what these guys are up against I also don't condone murder as I've said before,

[renomarvinm]

We cannot judge this man unless we have been in the same situation and faced the same pressures he has yourself.  We do not know what it was like being there in a true viceral sense,  Yes, we may read about it in the safety of our homes, and even sympathise with the man, which is good, but we cannot truly know, down in our guts what it was like,  In a crude way, it is something like a game of high stakes poker, and the islamic madmen have set the table stakes and set up the rules - they always have. Kippling understood them better than most of us.

No, I have not been there, and no, I have no greater understanding of matters than anybody else does.  But we cannot judge this man.  There may be many factors involved.  For one thing, if the man were dying in pain, and beyond saving, such an act would spare him terrible agony.  This is not unheard of in battle - I just do not know.