Item dropped at post office. not delivered.Case open.On your own if don't have proof of delivery??

[richami21]

Hello would really appreciate help from experienced sellers on what I'm sure is a problem that inevitablty crops up from time to time.

Case opened against me today as buyer hasn't received item- 2nd class signed- that was dropped at post office on 10th Oct with expected delivery date of 16th.

I was unaware until that point of any issue as I learned a while ago that fairly often items don't show as delivered even when they have been (though that may not apply to signed ones).

Unpleasant surprise, as always if anything goes wrong. I'm currently perplexed as to how Ebay deals with this scenario.

My options appear limited to (a) contact buyer, (b) provide tracking, (c) refund. I've contacted the buyer, apologising and promising to get on it straight away. Next step was providing tracking. I expected to have to provide a photo showing my receipt from when I dropped the item at post office, but instead I was only able to input the tracking number and carrier...which is already on the Ebay system, meaning buyer can already see it, and could do from moment I purchased postage automatically through Ebay (as i usually do).

So what's next? I don't find the information provided by Ebay to be at all clear, but have a bad feeling I, and other sellers, are only covered if can provide proof of delivery, which I can't, and which nobody can in the event of item not getting there.

It all seems very shoddy to me, especially as buyer currently seems in position of having gained nothing by me providing them with tracking details they already have. The case now shows as waiting for buyer action, which seems ridiculous as nothing has changed for them and there is no action they can take, beyond closing case which they obviously won't do.

Item shows up at my end on ebay as having been accepted by post office, with the second step also ticked (in transit, i think). Royal Mail website adds nothing. Says only 'we've got it' and details of when and where it was accepted at post office, as well as 'Your item has been posted at a Post Office. As you've used our Royal Mail Signed For service, the next update you'll see is after we've attempted to deliver to the recipient.'

Given it's 17 days now, fair to say it's surely lost by them. So...is this really the ebay system? Do I now have to wait for the inevitable of the buyer bcoming more annoyed, understandably, and then it being escalated to who knows what step, which I have no faith is any more sensible than this one?

I suspect my only real option is to offer a full refund and then pursue it through Royal Mail. If anyone could confirm for me this is the case I would be very grateful, as i dislike waiting and want to resolve it for the buyer as quickly as possible.

Thanks

[m25jet]

Given that the buyer has already been pretty patient in that he/she has waited over a fortnight for the item to arrive before opening an Item Not Received case I'd say that the best option would be to take a damage limitation approach.  The last thing you need is the buyer escalating the case to eBay to force a refund, as if that happens then you'll end up with an account-damaging defect and you won't get a refund of the fees relating to the sale of the item.  Therefore, act quickly to minimise the risk of that happening.

First of all, reply to the buyer via the Item Not Received case, apologising for the fact that something appears to have gone wrong with the transaction and inform him/her that you will issue a full refund of the amount paid for the item, then once you have done that

issue the buyer with a total refund via the case.  If you refund the buyer's money via eBay before the buyer is offered the chance to escalate the matter to eBay to sort out then you will not receive a refund-related defect on your selling account.  However, if you were to refund the buyer via PayPal and not via eBay then you'd end up with an account-damaging defect, so make sure that you issue the refund via eBay.

Another thing you need to be aware of is that there's still the possibility that the buyer may leave you negative feedback.  However, if you deal with this the right way and the buyer gets the impression that you have done your level best to ascertain what has gone wrong and are genuinely sorry for the problems caused then he/she may not leave you negative feedback in relation to the transaction, especially if you issue the refund swiftly.  There are a small minority of buyers who appear to be just plain vindictive and who would relish the chance to leave negative feedback, but not all buyers are like that.  In fact I would say that from my own personal experiences of selling on eBay the vast majority of buyers are very reasonable.  I've even had some buyers that I've dealt with when things went wrong that I would include in the latter of those two categories, as things were resolved amicably with no need for eBay to step in and sort the matter out.

Once you've refunded the buyer make a claim against the Royal Mail for loss in transit.  You say that you posted the item via Second Class Signed For - if that was enough to cover you adequately for the item's value then you may get a refund, although if the postage method used was not sufficient to cover the full value of the item you sent then you'd be lucky to get more than a book of stamps from the Royal Mail in compensation.

[richami21]

Thanks. That's what I will do. Really appreciate you taking time to provide me with a good, detailed response.

Out of interest, what has your experience been of items going missing with Royal Mail or other carriers.

This is the 2nd time it has happened for me from 110 sales. 1st time I refunded immediately and was able to get full refund from Royal Mail. Was under 10 pound.

After that I changed tack and began listing items above £10 as signed for, in hope that was a more secure service.

[m25jet]

Whenever I've sold on eBay I've only ever used Royal Mail to post sold items to their new owners. Out of all the transactions I had only three of them ever went wrong, and I was able to resolve all three. The first one was my first international sale - a guy from Russia bought a music CD from me but he still hadn't received it after a month. That was some years ago and the rules were quite different back then - the guy didn't open a case against me but just enquired as to what was happening with regards to the item. I put a trace on the tracking number and managed to ascertain that the item was stuck in Russian Customs, and suggested that if he were to contact them then he may be able to get the item released. He replied a few days later to say that he'd had to pay a fee to get the item released but had since received the item, and he left me some positive feedback once he'd received his item.

The second incident I had of an item going missing was when a buyer opened an Item Not Received case against me relating to a polo shirt I'd sold him. I put a trace on the tracking number and was able to ascertain that delivery had been attempted but the item had been taken back to the Delivery Office awaiting collection. The buyer said that he hadn't received the "Sorry, You Were Out" card from the Royal Mail so I told him to go down to the Delivery Office with some ID, such as a driving licence or a passport to prove that he was the recipient, and even described what the item looked like, such as the colour and dimensions of the parcel, and other details that somebody other than the intended recipient wouldn't have been able to tell the post office if it wasn't for him. For example, I explained that the postage label had been stuck onto the parcel a bit lop-sided and had a crease across it, and I advised him to collect the item from the Delivery Office. The buyer did as I advised and when I next put a trace on the tracking number it was clear that the buyer had collected the item and had signed for it before it had been handed over. However, he still wouldn't close the case he'd opened against me, so I contacted eBay Customer Services and asked them to put a trace on the tracking number, and once they saw that the buyer had collected the item and signed for it they closed the case in my favour and removed the buyer's feedback stating that the item had never been received.

Another problem I had was when I sold a collection of old advertising pocket watch keys to a buyer in Italy. The buyer paid straightaway after winning the auction and I posted the keys out the very next morning (the auction was set to end during the evening). I kept an eye on the tracking details, as I'd heard of other people having problems posting to Italy, and I spotted that something had gone wrong. Basically, the item had been put into the wrong bag at Heathrow Worldwide Distribution Centre and had ended up somewhere in Poland! I contacted the buyer via eBay Messages and explained what had gone wrong and offered him the choice of a refund or an alternative collection of keys. He accepted the latter option so I posted the second set of keys out and he received them within a weeks' time and left me positive feedback in relation to the transaction - pretty good of him really, considering his purchase had got lost in transit.

About two weeks after the replacement keys turned up the Italian buyer e-mailed me via eBay Messages to say that the first set of keys had turned up, albeit belatedly. A check on the tracking showed that the parcel had been returned to the UK, where it had been rerouted to Italy once it got back to Heathrow and the buyer asked me if I could send him an invoice so that he could pay for the keys, as he'd effectively got two lots for the price of one. I told him that there was no need to pay for them again, and to accept them for free by way of apology for the problems with transit, and he let the matter go at that point. However, he did end up subsequently purchasing more items from me after that, although I'm glad to say that there were no further problems with transit and his items reached him before the estimated date of delivery.

At the end of the day I really feel that a large part of preventing customers getting annoyed if things go wrong is to be seen to be pulling out all the stops for them in order to reassure them that you're on their side and are doing your level best to resolve the problem for you. Customers don't tend to want to verbally attack people when it's clear to them that the seller in question is doing his/her level best to try to help them out, so if you can come across as a customer-focused seller who deals with any issues proactively then you should be able to minimise the possibilities of a case going bad on you and resulting in negative feedback and/or a defect on your account.

Whenever I've sold items I've always used Royal Mail Signed For, usually First Class, although I have also included the Second Class equivalent of the Royal Mail Signed For service so as to give buyers a choice as to which option to go for. Those who need the item sooner probably won't object to paying a few pounds more to ugrade to First Class Signed For, whereas those who don't mind waiting a bit longer will often go for the Second Class equivalent in order to save a bit of money on the postage.

For items that have sold for £50.00 or more I've always used Royal Mail Special Delivery, as that way the item gets to the buyer the next working day, and it provides a greater level of insurance for the item should something end up going wrong and it gets lost or damaged in transit.

[richami21]

Thank you very much for your response. Definitely useful and helpful for me.

I'm a bit constrained with what I've sold to date in that it has either been small low value items or ones that are a little more expensive but bought new and often with very small profit margins.

In short, I've not made a success of it. But it's something I wanted to try for a long time and I'm glad I have.

My policy has been always be polite, always try post quickly and always try resolve issues quickly. Dogged throughout by sense though that maybe I wasn't using postage options in best possible way.

Reassured by your post that I haven't really made any serious errors in that regard, although seems an excellent tip to opt for special delivery on items of £50.00 or more. I'll use that where applicable.

Thanks again and good luck with your selling on here.

[pixiesen2012]

you don't have to wait for the buyer to become annoyed

as your tracking doesn't show the item has been delivered you need to refund the buyer in full,

then make a claim from Royal Mail using your proof of postage

[richami21]

Thanks for advice. Have communicated to buyer I will issue them full refund. Just wanted to get some opinions on here as I did not find the ebay advice for this situation all that clear or helpful. Thankfully buyer seems nice and understanding.

Maybe I had unrealistic expectations but I hoped that sending something signed for and being able to supply proof it was received by post office 17 days ago would see Ebay offer a clear path to resolution at this point. Instead it seems very much you are left on your own to figure it out.

[pixiesen2012]

proof of postage means you posted something


ebay need proof it was delivered, if you don't have this you have to refund

[poachedorscrambled]

And as for the more expensive way of postage ( special delivery ).. it’s more about ease with Of mind for yourself, It’s saves you the drama of things getting lost, because it will be scanned at every single process, I guess it all depends on how much you want a transaction to go smoothly, signed for you are pretty much expecting something to mess up, I.e delays etc,

[poachedorscrambled]

Sorry if i sounded annoyed at you.. it’s more the frustration I’m in at moment, I was messaging the seller yesterday again but still no response, the last time the seller messaged me was to say they will look into it and get back to me, that was 10 days ago now,
I tell you my main problem with Royal Mail.. ( the staff) just months ago, the postman tried handing me an empty envolope with an hole in it, I said I’m not signing for it, He checked his bag and nothing, I asked if there’s someone in charge I can speak to, he rung his boss.. talked a little and passed phone to me.. as I was ranting to his boss about the situation he checked his bag again- but as I was on the phone I watched him check inside the bag the second time.. it was empty apart from a ring box, I hung up and he said sorry about that and passed it me, problem is he said it was not there, it clearly was.., I hade a seller a few years ago when I was starting buying on eBay, mis-sold me a pair of gold plated cufflinks as gold, he said return with signed for so I did, long story short, tracking never showed any further progress, my return date came and went, I missed my refund slot eventually.. Seller saying not received, so I escalated The claim, at the last day of escalation the seller refunded me, saying he couldn’t afford to refund straight away..the thing is he didn’t have to- the tracking didn’t say he had received them back,
If you sell any jewellery it is ONLY covered by special delivery for loss, any other and you cannot claim anything, At the end of the day it’s down to sellers to know the rights and wrongs of shipment, It’s not down to a buyer to make sure they receive something, eBay have rules in place to make sure they don’t really lose out, so I make sure owt that I send signed for is in packaging bigger than letter boxes, So it cannot be just posted by accident and less likely to get lost in the Royal Mail process lines,

[richami21]

That's okay. Was initially bit taken aback but can understand you feeling heated on the topic. I'd definitely opt for most secure option on expensive items like jewellery. I like sales to go well and peace of mind for myself and buyer.

Anyway, I've refunded buyer now. Hopefully can get some/most back from Royal Mail and also chance to ask them how things can just disappear with them at transit stage and not be flagged by their internal systems.

All the best with your ongoing issue.

[poachedorscrambled]

I’m in exact same problem, I ordered something that got posted on the 10th October From Wales , THE SELLER sent a £250 ring 1st class signed for in an envelope of all things..no updates with tracking From 10th October apart from they’ve got it, I’ve waited and waited and had numerous other deliveries, Seller is now not responding, I’ve opened not received case and still no response from seller, the annoyance is not with eBay or royal mail, this is down to the SELLER.. you as a seller has done the same thing, entirely your fault for using a cheaper postal service, now us buyers are been Messed about, instead of coming on forums moaning about it refund the buyer.. you Are obviously aware how the different postal services work..

[richami21]

Thanks for your input.

I was not aware that the Royal Mail should be avoided. Nor, to be honest, am I aware of relative merits of other options. I did some research but reviews were mixed for all of them.

I've not found it easy from the off to know what the best options for postage are. Obviously the better price you can offer the better chances are of a sale, but that has to be balanced against security.

I'm fairly new to selling, have been interested for a while, and in part it has been an experiment for me to see if one day I could make a go of it properly. I won't be doing so and one key factor in it is that I haven't been able to find a means of posting that allows me to be competitive and at the same time feel secure enough.

Perhaps it exists and the fault is all mine in failing to see it. You seem to know more about these things for instance. Should a seller always offer the most secure/expensive postage, from this elusive better than rest carrier, on items of any price, even though this will obviously put off many people from buying?

On an item of £250 I would pay the extra for insurance, and did, out of own pocket, on my only sale above that value. On a £25 pound item I believed signed with Royal Mail was a safe, secure option.

I'm sorry the seller in you case has been unhelpful.