2 Minutes silence. Refusual to part take on religious grounds?

[**streety**]

Hi all.
As we all know Monday was rememberance day and at work we all honoured the 2 mins silence.
However one person at work refused as they are a Jehovah Witness?

I've never come across this before and thought how absurd it was.  I can't understand what on earth religion has to do with standing and remebering those who fought for us.  Everyone not matter what religion or not have someone in their family tree who was directly affected by war

[**forum-decorum**]

Bank, I respect your opinion, I am sure you remeber me saying that before.

Though it would appear some are more equal than others

How so?

There are billions of people who do not know Jehovah. Many of them in ignorance practice things that God's Word shows to be wicked. If they persist in this course, they will be among those who perish during the great tribulation."

Perhaps adding the next bit of text that follows what you have quoted may make my point a little more paletable.

"Yet, Jehovah takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, nor should we. (Ezekiel 33:11) As long as time permits, we endeavor to help such people to learn and apply Jehovah’s ways"

So read the above, immediately after the peice you quoted and put it into context and it is teaching us that you/they/we don't have to stay ignorant, if they/you/we persist in wickedness after learning of God and his principals then they perish. That clearly then is their own fault and no blame should be laid at Jehovah's feet.

Of course the bit of text that follows that:-

"But what if some people show intense hatred for Jehovah?"

Is also answered with:-

"Regarding them, the psalmist said: “Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you, O Jehovah, and do I not feel a loathing for those revolting against you? With a complete hatred I do hate them. They have become to me real enemies.” (Psalm 139:21, 22) It was because they intensely hated Jehovah that David looked on them with abhorrence. Apostates are included among those who show their hatred of Jehovah by revolting against him. Apostasy is, in reality, a rebellion against Jehovah. Some apostates profess to know and serve God, but they reject teachings or requirements set out in his Word. Others claim to believe the Bible, but they reject Jehovah’s organization and actively try to hinder its work. When they deliberately choose such badness after knowing what is right, when the bad becomes so ingrained that it is an inseparable part of their makeup, then a Christian must hate (in the Biblical sense of the word) those who have inseparably attached themselves to the badness. True Christians share Jehovah’s feelings toward such apostates; they are not curious about apostate ideas. On the contrary, they “feel a loathing” toward those who have made themselves God’s enemies, but they leave it to Jehovah to execute vengeance.—Job 13:16; Romans 12:19; 2 John 9, 10."

I repeat, Jehovah gives everyone the same choice (or chance) to be included in survival. That being listen to Gods principals, change your course (repent and turn around is another way of explaining it) and apply them in your life and you will be included in his promises. For the dead who died in ignorance they too will have a chance to learn Gods righteous ways and make a choice after they have been resurrected.

However I don't put my faith and trust in a supernatural being for whose existence there is no evidence whatsoever, because, like Kate Smurthwaite, I too am not an idiot.

That is entirely up to you Bank of course it is, you are making your God given choice not to believe and live by his principals. It does not though prove, that there is no evidence of Gods existense, there is plenty of evidence, but you like many are just blind to it because you don't wish to see it. I am no idiot either Bank I have analised all the evidences put before me, and there has been an abundance of it, and I have been convinced and made my choices based on that.

[****merlin*****]

---

@golden*nugget28 wrote:

 I have analised all the evidences put before me, and there has been an abundance of it, and I have been convinced and made my choices based on that.

---

you have something that every world renowned scientist has spent their entire careers searching for, I am sure every newspaper in the world will be knocing on your door asking for this evidence by midnight

i look forward to tomorrows headlines

[**streety**]

I just don't understand this need and desire to follow any religion and especially so seriously.   
Why choose to be ruled when we already have so many rules we cant control in our lives?
Just be free.

[**forum-decorum**]

Don't be so silly?

streety, I certainly am not being silly, I am being very serious.

With respect....I really do think you are missing the point, of my previous post. If I cannot explain my/our reasons for not observing then it is quite futile to expect you to understand even if you cannot agree.

I am happy that you are happy streety, and my post certainly wasn't meant to be disrespectful, and I don't think it was.

We are taught to show love and respect to everyone, even love our enemies as ourselves. That said, we do not want or try to make enemies of anyone, so that is a furgure of speach if you can understand what I am trying to say.

Please forgive me if I have started to go on a little too much regarding JW's, I was just trying to defend our stand as the subject was brought up. I am not in any fear of opposition and differing opinions, I too try very hard to have the courage of my convictions and am not ashamed of them in any way. I do find it sad though that we are very much misunderstood, but we were warned in the Bible "you will be objects of hatred regarding my name" (Jesus Christ) So true

[**forum-decorum**]

lol,

you have something that every world renowned scientist has spent their entire careers searching for, I am sure every newspaper in the world will be knocing on your door asking for this evidence by midnight

i look forward to tomorrows headlines

I am sorry merlin, but in my view that is a very big red herring.

There are many scientist who acknowlege a creator (God) and his evidences, they are all around us. It is purely what we choose to do with them, that counts.

[**forum-decorum**]

Just be free.

Can I ask you streety, how you feel you are free?

[****merlin*****]

so where do you stand on Peter Higgs & the Higgs Boson then? You surely cannot disagree with his findings, the finding of the  particle, proves the existence of the Higgs Field, which is responsible for giving particles mass, that means its the field that creates matter

[**streety**]

Golden nugget, I don't think I'm happy, but that's besides the point.

Whatever our differences, I also respect your opinion and respect your beliefs.  I guess what I don't like is that your god is convinced that those who refuse to believe or follow will left to face the consequenses. Your god firmly believes that there will be consequences.
 However I don't believe that you as a JW will have to face consequences for not following what others believe is the correct path.. 
Believe what you want to believe, no-one is right or wrong or proven otherwise.
We cannot prove god exists and we cannot prove that he doesn't..  

Interesting to read about everyones opinions though, and thanks to GN for being honest and standing up for your beliefs 

[**streety**]

---

@golden*nugget28 wrote:

Just be free.

Can I ask you streety, how you feel you are free?

---

I guess I meant it as in free by not actively conforming to one belief or any at all in the religious sense

[notgrumpyreally]

I don't agree totally or totally disagree with any of the opinions on this thread but I have found it very interesting to have an insight into beliefs I have never really considered before.
My own beliefs are more philosophical than religious. I believe that only the fact that people have the facility in their minds to doubt things sets them aside from other animals and, as such, no particular religion can be unquestioned. There's obviously more to my thoughts than that! Anyway, I welcome the debate to FHG and hope it may continue and in a dignified way.

[**forum-decorum**]

Golden nugget, I don't think I'm happy, but that's besides the point.

Whatever our differences, I also respect your opinion and respect your beliefs.  I guess what I don't like is that your god is convinced that those who refuse to believe or follow will left to face the consequenses. Your god firmly believes that there will be consequences.
However I don't believe that you as a JW will have to face consequences for not following what others believe is the correct path..
Believe what you want to believe, no-one is right or wrong or proven otherwise.
We cannot prove god exists and we cannot prove that he doesn't.. 

Interesting to read about everyones opinions though, and thanks to GN for being honest and standing up for your beliefs

Thank you for that streety,

I did a a few years ago now though feel as you do, but over ther years I took an interest in what JW's had to say when they nocked my door. I just got to the point when I could no longer deny the existance of God and what he was offering.

I am happy streety - I hope very much you will be one day xxxxx

I am free too, yes I suffer as any person with age related problems, sickness, pain all the usuals of being a human being lol, but I am free because I have answers to many of the questions any humans could want. For instance Why are we here, what happens to us when we die - why do we die. When will suffering end, why do we suffer all the types of things. I am happy to be ruled (as you call it) and guided, all these things are not a burden to me. I chose to live like it.

[notgrumpyreally]

Why do you name yourself after a gambling machine?

[notgrumpyreally]

Sorry, the gaming machine that was named after a casino?

[**forum-decorum**]

so where do you stand on Peter Higgs & the Higgs Boson then? You surely cannot disagree with his findings, the finding of the  particle, proves the existence of the Higgs Field, which is responsible for giving particles mass, that means its the field that creates matter

mmmmmmmm,

How to explain......

merlin, I have read up a lot on the subject of Higgs, higgs boson and the physics and the collider I do have to admit it is hard going as physics was never one of my strongest subjects. 

I find it very interesting, and cannot really dispute his findings on particles, even reading about the collider and what it has been built to do.

What I will say is my opinion, is that all these scientists working on the physics of mass, matter and even the big bang theory (I believe that is what is said to have been replicated with the collider) are merely discovering and copying what Jehovah has already created and done.

Where creation itself is concerned, it states in the Bible in Genisis what God created and certain timelines, for example in verses 1-3 He created the heavens and the earth, he said let there be light and dark so formed the first day. What it doesn't state is how and what with, apart from saying he did it with his active force.

So Jehovah could very well have been or was the first to use the laws of physics, as I know him to be the creator of all things he was the creator of the particles, mass,  matter and laws of physics. Mere human scientists are just using their God given brains and abilities to uncover and explain what is already there.

Jehovah is the alpha and omega, the begining and the end, he has always been there and always will be, that is telling us he has been around for millions and millions of years even before he decided to create the earth, so he had been creating all kinds of other things before hand.

[bankhaunter]

"Yet, Jehovah takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, nor should we. (Ezekiel 33:11)

But you do take pleasure in it because it's your desire and you need it to justify your beliefs and your god seems to be happy enough to do it as well, I don't see any reluctance to promote murder, destruction and enslavement in the Old Testament.

Your god of love as you put it,  reminds me of the father who, in order to make his children obey his pettifogging rules, gives them a sound thrashing with a cane to keep them on his straight and narrow then tells them he only does it because he loves them.

you are making your God given choice not to believe and live by his principals.

But your god does not give a choice, it's a case of do as I say or be destroyed, that's no choice at all and how is it that those with religious belief are so arrogant that they think it is only those who share their beliefs, that can be good moral people?

I might also ask, what is so attractive about spending eternity as a slave or some sort of pet? Paradise can hardly be a paradise if it needs ruling over.

Given that your god is supposed to be all powerful and can do anything he likes, if they should have the opportunity of meeting him, there is a goodly number of people that could demand he seeks their forgiveness for the harm and treatment he allowed them to suffer during their lives, suffering which he could so easily have prevented.

[****merlin*****]

---

@golden*nugget28 wrote:

I find it very interesting, and cannot really dispute his findings on particles, even reading about the collider and what it has been built to do.

The collider was built purely to accelerate particles to almost the speed of light and let them "collide"

(the "large" part relates to and enables  speed)

The findings were nicknamed for the laymen, "the God Particle" because it proved that perceived "God" doesnt and couldnt create matter, because the field does, ergo the filed is the "creator"

What I will say is my opinion, is that all these scientists working on the physics of mass, matter and even the big bang theory (I believe that is what is said to have been replicated with the collider) are merely discovering and copying what Jehovah has already created and done.

Its not copying its proving origin, above and beyond any man made God

the most respected scientific minds in the world awarded Higgs The Nobel Prize for his findings, 

@golden*nugget28 wrote:

 I have analised all the evidences put before me, and there has been an abundance of it, and I have been convinced and made my choices based on that.

why have these people not come forward with their abundance of evidence to not only disprove all that has been proven, but also to prove what the world has been searching for and waiting on? why are you keeping this all to yourselves? I would have thought it something to be shared and rejoyced 

you asked streety about being free

everything you have said, is quoted, its like listening to a programmed robot with a bank of stock phrases to be used when a certain word triggers 

there is nothing free about what you are saying, there is nothing personal or passionate, its all quoted drilled in hearsay, learned not experinced

vacuous statments with no genuine substance

i dont know whether to be worried or saddened or perhaps just glad that i understand what is in front of me without the need to believe in something/anything rather than accept enjoy the reality

---

[**forum-decorum**]

Morning Bank.

mmmmmmm, you know you have raised some interesting points there, don't you Bank?

"Yet, Jehovah takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, nor should we. (Ezekiel 33:11)

But you do take pleasure in it because it's your desire and you need it to justify your beliefs and your god seems to be happy enough to do it as well, I don't see any reluctance to promote murder, destruction and enslavement in the Old Testament.

Your god of love as you put it,  reminds me of the father who, in order to make his children obey his pettifogging rules, gives them a sound thrashing with a cane to keep them on his straight and narrow then tells them he only does it because he loves them.

Pleasure in the death of people is not taken in my case, I desire the promise of a righteous world where there is no wickedness and all live forever in a world where suffering and pain and death are no more. I do not desire wickedness who does? so if I did why would I want to do the preaching work to help others come to know God so they have a chance to live forever.

God has told us he takes no pleasure in it at all, again he gives mankind a way out.

What he is, is a God of justice, does the law of the land allow evil doers and criminals go unpunished? Does the law of the land try in many cases to rehabilitate them to allow them back into society?

Jehovah set in place right at the outset of Adam and Eves disobedience a plan (programme/schedule) of righting their wrong and he is not wavering from his schedule.

you are making your God given choice not to believe and live by his principals.

But your god does not give a choice, it's a case of do as I say or be destroyed, that's no choice at all and how is it that those with religious belief are so arrogant that they think it is only those who share their beliefs, that can be good moral people?

Of course it is a choice, the only thing here is God had and still has a purpose for mankind, that has never changed, his purpose is a good and loving one, he cannot allow wickedness to spoil what he purposed. Because he is the creater and Almightly God he does have the authority to state his principals and require them to be followed. For the sake of good loving people he has to step in.

There are also many issues that have to be set street and answered where satan and his accusations are concerned that dictate Gods just course of action. The study of the bible will help ones to learn of those.

It is not arragance to believe what Jehovoh has promised, because we are convinced of who God is we believe what he says. Morals are Gods principals so because we follow them we are good moral people, arragance deosn't come into it.

I might also ask, what is so attractive about spending eternity as a slave or some sort of pet? Paradise can hardly be a paradise if it needs ruling over.

Given that your god is supposed to be all powerful and can do anything he likes, if they should have the opportunity of meeting him, there is a goodly number of people that could demand he seeks their forgiveness for the harm and treatment he allowed them to suffer during their lives, suffering which he could so easily have prevented.

Why would you think I am going to be a slave and pet? The bible states very clearly that paradise will be just that. Plenty of all that mankind needs to live and enjoy life," we ain't seen nothin yet" the world will be our oyster. (righteously of course).

Jehovahs purpose and promises are doing just that, rectifying the damage and suffering that Satan and the first two humans created. As I said he is having to keep to a schedule because he well knows that is the best way for all mankind, not just a chosen few. The ressurection will bring in all who have died, suffering and the memories of it will be completely wiped out. That Bank is a loving God.

Look to Job in the Bible, did he not suffer but because he stayed faithful Jehovah rewarded him 100 fold.

[**forum-decorum**]

Merlin,

All my answers are from my heart. I choose to live as I do regarding "my religion" I am very happy and proud to be a part of it, and look forward to a time where the world is a far better peaceful place, the trials of life and the moment are only temporary.

If you choose not to want to be a part of that then that Merrlin is your right to choose.

All I can say I am confident about the future and am happy to wait on Jehovah.

As for scientists not comming forward, they have, you just have'nt found the records of them, without being sarcastic, try googling.

[****merlin*****]

forgive me, but google is a minefield

it would be easy for me to pick and choose who and what to believe (sound familiar?)

i would be interested in any recomendations you have though, and would welcome any scientific, proven data

Stephen Hawkins  calculated that if the rate of the universe's expansion one second after the Big Bang had been smaller by even one part in a hundred thousand million million, the universe would have collapsed. Stephen Hawkins actually placed a bet that Higgs would fail

Stephen Hawkins was one of the first people to congratulate when his findings were released

all of this has been proven, this year, this is the most up to the minute we have

so i think its unlikely anyone has disproven it

yet

anything previous is no longer true, as Higgs has proven

[notgrumpyreally]

All this from a woman who believes in unicorns 🙂