Do eBay actually check the EU Responsible Person details?

[teap0t42]

Just been browsing a listing from a competitor that eBay kindly suggested I'd be interested in, and I noticed they are still selling in to the EU - something I stopped last year as I can't justify the cost of engaging a representative within the bloc.

Looking at their listing, the details they have for the EU Responsible Person are their own UK address - which of course isn't valid as said responsible person has to be within the EU.

eBay appear to have happily allowed them to list this, so what's the point of me having cut off part of my market when others can seemingly ignore the rules, avoid the expense and carry on?

[ojewellery]

Looking at what you sell assuming a competitor is similar, I'd guess it'll catch up with them in quite a scary way at some point - a threat of all listings being deleted sort of way. 

I guess eBay will start with highest risk categories with no details, then work down through incomplete details and at some stage incorrect address will flag.  But that might just be my logic on it.

I've got a few competitors that I try not to look at, its a frustrating time sync out of my control.  My particular bugbear is wrong categories and titles/ descriptions that don't comply with policy.    Not constructive or positive for my business to start down the digging path.

[teap0t42]

Having their listings deleted would be a good outcome. Looking at their PCB designs I get the impression they are someone with enough knowledge to make something functional but not enough experience to make it safe and meet the necessary legislation. I very much doubt they understand, let alone meet, the requirements of the GPSR. Potential outcomes are forced recalls and, if something goes wrong with one of their products, a liability claim.

This is one thing that's stopped me expanding my range in the way they have - managing compliance is a real headache and probably not worth the return, especially when you get the likes of them able to sell at unrealistic prices because they are flouting the rules.

[jonat_broad]

I don’t think either of the two main marketplaces have got their heads around GPSR. 

Amazon for example don’t even accept it applies in Northern Ireland and refuse to allow the ability to add a responsible person to listing. But even in the France there’s major listings for things like a PS5 where the responsible person is Proctor and Gamble. 

eBay you’d think could at least have build a rule to look for an EU country. None of this is hard, it’s just they don’t seem to want to know

[books-from-sharon]

I really don't understand this GPSR stuff.  

In the box that ebay add, I put the manufacturer as requested ie. Canelo, Harper Collins, etc and their address (usually UK).  For things that I make, alter, upcycle, etc, I put my address as manufacturer - partly because I do my crafting at my address and also because I am insured at same address.

I do not put a responsible person because how would I know who to put on a book listing.  The publishers may well have offices in EU countries but I don't know where.

Because I don't understand it, I don't ship directly overseas although I have enrolled in the GSP and assume that if they require further info. they, or ebay, will let me know.

To be honest, it just seems like more EU bureaucratic nonsense to me.  I really don't see how a paperback novel can pose a danger to anyone unless you rip out the pages and feed it to someone.

[teap0t42]

And that is where eBay's blanked implementation falls down. There are plenty of things it doesn't apply to that they try and apply it to.

However, I'm afraid what you are doing is potentially opening you to problems. Because GPSR is an EU legislation, you need a representative in the EU who takes responsibility for the compliance of your products. We are no longer in the EU so neither you, nor anyone else in the UK, can be that representative.

Larger companies will have an EU branch, smaller companies can engage an agent to act as their EU representative. I chose to stop selling to the EU as the few sales I get wouldn't come close to covering the cost of employing an agent.

Don't forget that due to one of the many compromises the Leave campaign promised us we wouldn't have to make you also need to block sales to Northern Ireland as well as the rest of the EU. There is the threat of having all listings ended hanging over us if eBay decides that we aren't supplying the information they want. I've found it's not worth even trying to argue that certain items don't fall under GPSR, they've decided to blanket apply it and don't really care. I'd argue that is where our regulatory compliance fee should be going, but seemingly not.

[the_book_seekers]

There is the potential for a fine for non-compliance from the EU and for ebay to remove listings/suspend selling. Since introduction I've seen the occasional post from sellers who have been prodded by ebay to comply, and had listings pulled, but not many given the size and complexities of the issue. 

I'm quite happy to leave any selling abroad for when I retire from business selling.

[wyntersemporium]

Noticed someone selling sterling silver jewellery yesterday had put their own name address in the EU responsible person bit. 

[jonat_broad]

If you are selling into the EU or NI you must have a responsible person in that region. For a book it would either be on you to identify the publishers responsible person (likely an EU office) or  you would need to source an RP yourself.

unfortunately the EU made no dispensation for books, so they deem it a product that needs the info.

if you don’t source that data in reality you need to stop selling into the EU and NI or accept there is a risk of fines or loss of listings.

[teap0t42]

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@jonat_broad wrote:

unfortunately the EU made no dispensation for books, so they deem it a product that needs the info.

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At first glance this seems rather stupid, but I guess there are lots of kids books with potentially harmful 'additions' (for want of a more technical term!).

Likely easier to blanket cover everything than keep adding specifics and exemptions to a list.

[the_bald_orc]

Iirc correctly it's up to a €20,000 fine for non compliance (possibly per item?).

I appreciate the chance of actually being fined is likely tiny, but personally I don't want the extra added stress of what if.

[books-from-sharon]

Thank you to everyone who offered advice or explanation, that was really helpful.  I have now excluded N.I. and Europe from my shipping settings and also, removed the override for GSP.  A shame as I sell a bit to N.I.  but so be it.

[the_book_seekers]

The EU isn't going to allow non-compliance to go on for very long. Somebody will be made an example of.

[4_bathrooms]

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@teap0t42 wrote:

eBay appear to have happily allowed them to list this, so what's the point of me having cut off part of my market when others can seemingly ignore the rules, avoid the expense and carry on?

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What appears to be happening is eBay are doing nothing to ensure compliance themselves other than providing the required fields for the responsible person, compliance documents, safety warnings etc. When a listing is reported via the EU's Safety Gate eBay hides the listing and requests the required documents and RP details from the seller. If the seller can't provide the requested documents and RP details the listing is removed in it's entirety including all it's associated sales history.

This approach seems entirely contrary to the letter and the spirit of the GPSR. I'm not entirely sure how long this approach will remain in place as online marketplaces are supposed to take a proactive (not a reactive) approach to the legislation.

[technthread]

I listed an item on auction a few days ago and totally forgot about this. It doesn’t help that listing on the app doesn’t have any GPSR section to complete so eBay have made impossible for app users to comply.

I have GSP active on that listing with Europe / NI switched on in error. I will see if I can update it through the postage business policy… does anyone know where we stand with Jersey and Guernsey? They come under Europe on eBay’s list?

[the_bald_orc]

The channel islands are not subject to the GPSR legislation as they are not part of the EU or single market, so you're still good to sell there.

[technthread]

Thanks. I bet people have fully unticked Europe and don’t realise those have been turned off with it. 

[wyntersemporium]

Recently sold to Alderney that went merrily on its way 

[teap0t42]

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@4_bathrooms wrote:

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When a listing is reported via the EU's Safety Gate eBay hides the listing and requests the required documents and RP details from the seller. If the seller can't provide the requested documents and RP details the listing is removed in it's entirety including all it's associated sales history.

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It also appears to require the product to come to the attention of one of the national authorities, making it vanishingly unlikely listings with false details will be addressed. At least that's how I read the detail on that website.

[teap0t42]

Well, it seems the answer to my original question is no, they don't check and they don't care either.

I reported one of the listings and got a reply back that they weren't going to remove it. Apparently it was an automated or AI decision and there is no way to follow it up further.

Not that I've got anything in particular against this seller, but it is looking as if I've given up sales for no particular reason as they are happy with false GPSR details being submitted...