A simple way to resolve the "private" business seller problem

[vonchief]

A correctly registered business can obviously not compete with those using private accounts to avoid eBay fees.

With eBay seemingly taking no action on these "private" business sellers, genuine business sellers feel they have no option but to open a private account and also avoid eBay fees.
I am certain this is not what genuine business sellers want to do.
eBay would not last very long either if all business sellers did this.

Surely if eBay removed the item condition of "new" for private accounts, this would go a long way to resolving the problem.
Simply grey out "new" for private sellers when they list an item.
They could still use "new other" if they have new, unused & unwanted items.

Anyone who is selling new items is a business.
If they want to list new items on eBay, the only option should be to open a business account.

[myriad*seller]

It could be argued that once a private seller has bought/been gifted a brand new item (that they no longer want and wish to sell) and taken it home that it is now "Preowned-unused/unopened" and is not brand new. 

So I see your point

eBay won't listen though

Their latest move is driving many businesses into failure, and it's not the fault of the business owners! 

[myriad*seller]

If consumers who has bought from "private" (actually unregistered business sellers) started ALL complaining to Trading Standards/Citizens Advice they would be overwhelmed and it would be impossible for them to help anyone else with non-eBay related issues! 

I wonder if this IS affecting their stats yet?

[ett1954]

It may work in some categories however in those such as collectables, antiques, art, etc it would make no difference.  More than 95% of my items are 'used' and I would still be plagued with 'traders selling illegally'.

[vonchief]

Perhaps eBay should make all preowned items free to sell, whether they are sold by business or private sellers.
You could still be registered as a business but only pay selling fees when listing new items.

eBay would still make money from shop fees and their other money making scheme, promoted listing.

[myriad*seller]

The problem is that whenever eBay introduces a rule, sellers use methods to bypass it

Take baby toys for instance

Private sellers are no longer permitted to sell baby toys - they cannot list in baby toys category

So now they list baby toys in Swimming Pools category to get around it

The baby toys selling ban is NOT working as items from private sellers AND businesses masquerading as "private" sellers are now just put in the wrong categories to get around the ban! 

[bravergrace]

The private/business thing isn't just a matter of fees (though fees obviously matter).

It's also returns.

In the clothing and shoes category, returns matter.  If you sell party dresses or expensive footwear, you will sometimes encounter the "buy 6 items and keep the one which fits" sort of buyer.  This leaves the seller out of pocket, and often with a returned item with reduced value - smelling of smoke, deodorant or worse.

Unregistered business sellers rarely accept returns.  

[myretrostore-uk]

Surely eBay must be aware of the impact their idiotic decision by now, making zero fees for private sellers.

Everyone could have seen this a mile away that is was going to be abused and now eBay can't/won't manage the fallout.

Not sure if the answer is to open a new private seller account, however this would mean starting from scratch. No sales figures/feedback.

Out of curiosity  can a business seller account just be changed back to private?

[bravergrace]

No, a business seller account can't be changed to private.

However, it seems to me that unregistered businesses are currently given four big advantages by eBay:

- no fees of any kind

- no obligation to accept returns

- a big OFFICIAL disclaimer by eBay "reminding" their customers that they don't have any legal rights when buying from unregistered businesses

- increased visibility compared with business sellers, presumably on the basis that private sellers spend all their money on eBay, and eventually will buy from a business seller by mistake, thereby attracting enough fees to justify all those fee-free transactions.

[johnwash1]

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@bravergrace wrote:

The private/business thing isn't just a matter of fees (though fees obviously matter).

It's also returns.

In the clothing and shoes category, returns matter.  If you sell party dresses or expensive footwear, you will sometimes encounter the "buy 6 items and keep the one which fits" sort of buyer.  This leaves the seller out of pocket, and often with a returned item with reduced value - smelling of smoke, deodorant or worse.

Unregistered business sellers rarely accept returns.  

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They may not accept change of mind returns, but they have to accept INAD returns.  And the other five party dresses I bought allegedly smell of smoke, so I'm going to return them and the seller has to pay the postage.

I don't understand why private sellers would even want to refuse change of mind returns.  Doing so just risks the savvy buyer doing an INAD, so the seller is more out of pocket.

I think a far better idea is one already suggested by someone, to forbid private sellers from selling new items.  As a genuine private seller myself, I wouldn't mind that restriction at all.  I don't imagine others would either, though I could be wrong.

[blackcatbooksuk]

I personally think the answer is to limit the amount that private sellers can list at anyone time, say 200 items.

But I do think a few that are doing this will be in for a shock after Jan 1st.

[bravergrace]

An alternative way forward might be to introduce 3 tiers of account:

- Big business accounts (for limited companies and traders above a certain level of sales).

- Beginner accounts (up to 12 sales per year) - fee-free and return-free (one per person, or one per household).

- Standard seller accounts (for small businesses and private sellers selling over 12 items per year), all paying a standard fee rate, and accepting change-of-mind returns.

This would do away with the fee evasion and return evasion problems.

[charlton-coins]

I agree with some of what you say, but you can't just remove new items from private sellers as a lot of so called private sellers sell second hand items, i can find in minutes private seller accounts with 20-40k transactions, selling second hand goods !! Private i think not.

As for openeing a private seller account , with already having a business account is a waste of time, i have had my business account for over 20 years - over 60k transactions, i also had a private account for selling just family items, i had this account for ten years, 1400 transaction, ebay told me it had to be changed to business, the only reason they can give me is that as i have a business account it must also be business, and they have not the time to hunt out people with just private accounts !!!

[kempseykate]

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@johnwash1 wrote:

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I don't understand why private sellers would even want to refuse change of mind returns.  Doing so just risks the savvy buyer doing an INAD, so the seller is more out of pocket.

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I don't understand that either. I offer change of mind returns as a private seller, never had a request for one yet.

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@johnwash1 wrote:

I think a far better idea is one already suggested by someone, to forbid private sellers from selling new items.  As a genuine private seller myself, I wouldn't mind that restriction at all.  I don't imagine others would either, though I could be wrong.

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I have a bit of a problem with that. I don't see why an item I bought from the shop that is still sealed should have to be classed as 'used'. When I could take it to a boot sale, a reseller (business reg) could buy it , list it on ebay, and it would be fine for them to call it new, when it's actually been through an extra pair of hands!

I would like to see 'used' / 'unused' options. I struggled for ages as to how to list a sealed novelty towel a while back - obviously it was unused, and as it was a towel, I would imagine this would be the important thing. But my only options were 'new' or 'used'. It wasn't 'new', but it most definitely wasn't 'used', so an 'unused' option would have been the logical choice.

[ett1954]

"However, it seems to me that unregistered businesses are currently given four big advantages by eBay: ....." - although not given by eBay you forgot one: unregistered businesses do not have to comply with GPSR.

[the-nutwood-collection]

With haberdashery, the term used is 'New Old Stock'.  This means it's in it's original packaging, not tampered with, but not supplied direct to the buyer by the manufacturer or a reseller.  It's had a previous owner - this could be a shop that's no longer trading, or a buyer that has never used it.

[555njp]

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@kempseykate wrote:

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@johnwash1 wrote:

I think a far better idea is one already suggested by someone, to forbid private sellers from selling new items.  As a genuine private seller myself, I wouldn't mind that restriction at all.  I don't imagine others would either, though I could be wrong.

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I have a bit of a problem with that. I don't see why an item I bought from the shop that is still sealed should have to be classed as 'used'. When I could take it to a boot sale, a reseller (business reg) could buy it , list it on ebay, and it would be fine for them to call it new, when it's actually been through an extra pair of hands!

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Agree, 90% of business sellers on eBay are just resellers, selling items sourced that have already been to a shop, warehouse, out to customer and back in some cases! Usually purchased wholesale or from a clearance, distribution, wholesale (pallet) company or at auction.

But, providing the item is unopened and in its original packaging (i.e. unused) it can be resold as new (eBay’s item description permits it).

However, unless the reseller is an authorised distributor (very few are as manufacturers want to control sales of their products), these ‘New’ items do not come with any manufacturers warranty (although many buyers are misled into thinking they do).
The only recourse for a product failing outside of eBay’s 30 day money back guarantee period would be a though a warranty offered by the reseller.  But, as many have found these are often not honoured or difficult if not impossible to enforce without going to court.

So, my point is, a Private seller selling an unopened, unwanted gift, sold as Brand New In Box is not really any different to the 90% of Business resellers on here, selling the same thing as ‘New’. Chances are neither has any come back beyond eBay’s 30 days.

Perhaps the ‘New’ category should only allow sellers to sell items with a full manufacturers warranty?

Then ‘New Other’ could be used for resellers, or private sellers selling an unopened, unused item that is now devoid of manufacturers warranty/guarantee but could include a resellers warranty if offered?

Then ‘Opened never used’ is self explanatory but could also include ‘without original packaging’?

[wheretheloveb]

90% of my items are vintage / collectable / antique. I buy stock mainly from bricks n mortar auction houses.

There are dozens of bidders in the room, bidding against me, who I know are 'buying to sell' on ebay and FB marketplace. They've been doing it for years and have private ebay accounts. Now with the free commission on private accounts they can afford to outbid me.

Whether an item is new or used, makes no difference to someone parading as a private seller who is in fact operating as a business

[returns_andexdisplay]

Maybe one way to tackle the problem would be all accounts get a certain amount of of free final value fees a year. First £2500 is free, up to £10,000 is 5% and after that you pay the going fee for the category you are selling in. Private accounts can only have one registered account per name and National Insurance number, Businesses have can have more than one but as per currently policy should be different stock/brands, condition.

Build a business package that is so good that if you are a private seller trying to dodge paying business fees you would be a fool to miss out, 

[bravergrace]

Really, I think the "new/used" thing is a red herring.

In many categories, it isn't "new" that matters - and the majority of business sellers in these categories deal solely or partly in used items.  

For instance:

- Antiques.  What antiques dealer wants to label their stock as  "NEW"?

- Autographs.

- Postage stamps.

- Coins.

- Collectables.  

- Pottery and glassware.

- Vinyl.

- Refurbished electricals.

- Books.

- Art.  A painting or statue isn't necessarily "better" or more desirable because it is "new", except to a complete Philistine who wants a Van Gogh because it matches their cushions.

- Vintage clothing.  

- Vintage anything else.

Clearly in some cases, "new" may command a premium.  But in others, it just means "reproduction", and "cheap modern plastic reproduction from China" at that.