ttm deception

[thehornets]

This is an issue I have come back to on and off over my years as a ttm collector, and is something I believe very strongly about.

Before I get to the issue, it should be pointed out that I do not believe selling autographs is a bad thing. Far from it. Without people selling older autographs, and the good in person dealers getting hard to get autographs many of us will never have access to, it could be a tough hobby to fill gaps in collections. Charity collectors also benefit from selling autographs. I also believe that if you buy something that is autographed, it is fair game to be sold on again as you own it. Some people fall on hard times and need to sell collections. It is tough when this happens, but is a necessary evil. I have been down that road myself.

Now to the issue. What I object to is people writing off for autographs with the clear intention of selling from whatever they receive. Unless the letter of request states the item(s) received will be sold on, it is nothing more than deceit, and an insult to the person kind enough to sign the autographs. Sometimes, in the belief they are replying to a fan, they send extra signed items. Would they do this if they knew where the item(s) were going? Not only is it deceit, but in many cases nowadays it can lead to some people refusing to sign autographs as they become jaded by seeing the glut of autographs they sign for so called fans on eBay. It hurts other fans and collectors. It is not clever to trick people in this way, in fact it is pretty scummy.

Is it wrong to be upset by this? I ask the question as I am trying to establish whether I still have a place on this forum. I await your replies with interest.

[sylouisetruebluechelsea]

Your not wrong ,i have sold autographs i have written off for only too fund my programme addiction but i only sell duplicates if i have them but i would never write too anyone with sole intention of selling them on too make money.I had too sell some a few years back too pay a large unexpected bill but then again they were duplicates.

[sid8066]

I couldn't agree with you more, I have NEVER sold an autograph in my life and if I do get extras from celebs and I know a genuine person who is a fan of the celeb I would give them the autograph for nothing, as the way I look at it I got it for nothing .....I know some people see a chance to make a few bob by selling their autographs when they are stuck which is fare enough but its not right to write and look for autographs just to sell straight away ,I have not got a reply for nearly a year and still I see those people that ive written to been sold for vast amounts on ebay and it makes me wonder should I have bothered writing in the first place , these people that sell the autographs always seem to have endless amounts so it makes you wonder how ? there is one thing I despise is the scum that sell fakes

[mr_clough]

I've not been on the forum too recently so have I missed something? I think you're right that to deliberately deceive someone into signing just to sell is wrong but it is clearly happens when you see items for sale that are clearly from TTM requests. I have bought autographs so I suppose have contributed to it in some ways. Has something specific brought this on?

[short380]

I agree 100% with you NIgel.  I only write to celebrities that mean something to me.  I have never and have no intention of ever selling any of my autographs I have received TTM.  I understand and appreciate that sometimes people do fall on hard times and therefore it is an option for them and that is really up to them but it is my hobby and personally I would not wish to sell any of my collection.

[film4watcher]

I'm with you on this, Nigel. I have bought autographs on occasion but always from a reputable dealer or when it's to raise funds for a good cause. I would never write for an autograph just so I could sell it and it annoys me that some people do this as it makes it difficult for the true collector. Of course there are times when money is short and you need to sell and that's understandable. It's always been my plan to enjoy collecting and looking at the results and then, when I kick the bucket, leave the collection to charity to be sold in aid of their cause. That's the only time I want my collection to make money.

Hope you still consider staying with us, Nigel as you are a big part on this forum.

[wheel-lose]

i too agree with nigel,,,i have never agreed with anyone who might have the intention of asking for autographs under false pretences,,maybe the indivual who suspected can come forward and give his position on this?would much rather this was settled amicably by all concerned,so we can move on to more pleasant business such as autograph collecting,,i await a response from the indivual

daz

[loobyloo6]

Al the years I've been on this forum I have never sold an autograph I have received via the TTM route or IP come to think of it. Given plenty away mind, I would never dream of asking for an autograph knowing I was going to sell it on for a profit....."Collector of Graphs" here. I never pretend to be the No1 fan......just an admirer of their career......Book and or a shirt for me these days.....

[kimbub16]

bit confused , have i missed something !!  i dont think this thread is about me , but i have a mickey rooney on ebay  which i did gain vv , so if this is about that can someone let me know and i will remove it ?

[serenamorgan]

I am certainly guilty of ocasionally selling the odd autograph that I have obtained TTM but I have never written to anyone with that intention in mind and never would.(it is with a heavy heart I sell anything from my collection and I only do so when needs must)

Everybody I write to has either done something or been in somethign that I have enjoyed and I have written to them because I would like their autograph in my collection and I would be quite happy if every one came back dedicated

Nigel, as far as I am concearned you will always have a place on the forum, I always look forward to seeing your replies and enjoy reading your input in general and I'm sure the majority, if not all of the regulars feel the same way, therefore I really hope you decide to stay with us

[ra1anne]

i have sold autographs ive recieved ttm in the past but like others say only duplicates ive never ever written for one with the intention of selling it....as for your place on this forum i think youll always have a place ..theres not many of us but i think were a crackin group and we all have a place 🙂

[loobyloo6]

Alan you can sleep safely mate.

[rallison470]

I agree Nigel. I have never sold an autograph that I have received TTM although I totally understand when people need money and have to sell items that they have collected. You would be a huge loss to this forum Nigel and I hope you stay on here

[westiesx2]

I too have sold autographs that I have received ttm but have never written to anyone with the sole intention of selling these on....and these would only be duplicates of the items. Any money received from these sales is purely to fund future requests which is becoming more and more expensive.

[obree]

I don't sell any of my TTM replies but I think it is ok to sell one or two to fund your hobby .

[loobyloo6]

Prople like you are the backbone of this forum Nigel, A wealth of knowledge on the subject too, I for one would certainly miss your imput.......we all would, Not that many of us left now who add something daily.

[thehornets]

I am not going anywhere for now, but will probably be quieter due to life getting in the way of collecting.

It's not the selling of autographs that's the problem, it's the deception. This is what p's off celebs more than anything. They get angry and upset when they realise that someone has pretended to be a fan to get a signed picture or other, only to offload it on eBay within a short space of time after receiving said item. Sometimes just minutes or hours! I share that anger as it has a knock on effect for people like me who are fans or collectors as it prevents some of us from getting replies.

Our hobby off ttm collecting is worse than in person when this happens. With in person the celeb can see the person they are signing for and form an opinion. They cannot do that with letters so easily.

For all those writing off to sell - BE FECKING HONEST! Tell the person you are writing to you want autographs to sell. Some might even respect your honesty and honour your request.

[rcsmg1]

I have to agree with you Nigel and have often commented on this on here in the past when (higher division) footballers on more money each week than we could ever dream of accuse you of selling them on Ebay when getting a few football cards signed IP.

Like others on here,I have sold some spare cards mainly to raise money to purchase other cards or autographs,but I haven't even bothered to do that for about a year. The only reason I write to ex players TTM is to get the cards signed for my collection and I always explain this in my letter to them.

I think Ebay has affected autograph collecting a lot,yes it has made it easier to purchase autographs you would never have been able to get before,but at the same time it has generated this impression of all 'older collectors' only being in it to sell the item on to make a quick profit.

I have always felt that celebrities not signing only add to this problem by further inflating the price of an item,the more they sign,the less rare that item or signature is and dealers/sellers will not get as much money for selling an item.Unfortunately it tars the genuine collector with the same brush!

[thehornets]

Most of us have good intentions with our collections, but life does not always allow us to honour those intentions. The signers understand this more than you think. When I started my second EE collection I was quite open in many of my old letters about why I had to sell my original collection, and that I was replacing what had been sold. It was a fact of life, and people respect honesty. What they hate is deception - people pretending to be what they are not. Writing as a fan or for so called family members/friends, yet then listing said items for sale within minutes or hours of getting them. Who can blame some for getting upset by this! It takes the p! Yeah, some will be thicker skinned and not care, but it still does not make it right.

With some football clubs/players, and high profile shows like EE where they provide cool signed fan cards, it gets silly and out of hand for those signing and providing them when they see so many available for sale, and so quickly! I get why some react badly about it.

No matter what anyone thinks, none of these people owe us autographs. Those who think otherwise really are delusional. The fact that so many do is wonderful, and the autographs they sign are welcome gifts.

I agree if everyone signed like mad it would prevent items being rare. Wendy Richard did it to good effect when she was alive, and so have many others.Wendy's signed items can still be picked up at incredibly low prices due to her signing so many things while she was alive.

On the flip side, the more savvy signers have realised by not signing freely they can sell their autographs at decent amounts to raise money for their favoured charities. Some signers have gone the whole way and sell their grafs themselves to cut out the dealers. Who can blame them? Why should someone else profit when they can themselves? For some it has become a key source of income, especially if fame was fleeting but high profile.

[bluemesa356]

As I recall, that very issue angered the late Richard Griffiths. Seems some American wrote him with 2 TTM requests, but the jerk turned around and sold the second request on eBay, and thoroughly angered Griffiths, who just happened to stumble across it eBay. Either way, that's not an honest way to make extra money......