Why can't I list Golly badges, yet golly books records figures etc are allowed.

[keepsakesandkollectables]

Just wondering why Ebay do not allow the listing of Golly badges ( From Robertson s jam / Golden Shread ).

Yet they allow books, records & figurines of the same name which also clearly show pictures of the said Golly's.

I do understand the race hatred link etc & I do not condone it in any way shape or form.

But it does seem odd they allow similar items that clearly show the same image but not others.

Can anyone explain why this is?

[*vyolla*]

Any books featuring the word 'Golly' in the title or figures are also reportable.

eBay banned these items way back in 2015.

[kempseykate]

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@*vyolla* wrote:

Any books featuring the word 'Golly' in the title or figures are also reportable.

eBay banned these items way back in 2015.

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No - when they started the ban in 2015 books were exempt, and as far as I can make out they still are:

The following items may be listed:

• Media such as historical photos, magazines, books and art, provided that such material doesn't perpetuate or glorify violence, intolerance or racial stereotyping

From:

Offensive materials policy | eBay

When I used to sell children's books as a business on here I had the occasional golly book, and the listings all stayed. Given that I posted on the boards under that ID and had a few haters at the time, I'm pretty sure they would have been reported!

[*vyolla*]

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@kempseykate wrote:

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@*vyolla* wrote:

Any books featuring the word 'Golly' in the title or figures are also reportable.

eBay banned these items way back in 2015.

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No - when they started the ban in 2015 books were exempt, and as far as I can make out they still are:

The following items may be listed:

• Media such as historical photos, magazines, books and art, provided that such material doesn't perpetuate or glorify violence, intolerance or racial stereotyping

From:

Offensive materials policy | eBay

When I used to sell children's books as a business on here I had the occasional golly book, and the listings all stayed. Given that I posted on the boards under that ID and had a few haters at the time, I'm pretty sure they would have been reported!

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I'm failing to see how 'racial stereotyping' doesn't cover books as well, a book featuring a Golly is both offensive to a person of colour and features racial sterotyping.

I don't believe that Golly books were excluded, I just believe that they weren't picked up by eBay. 

[kath3735_wxmjn]

maybe slightly off the point here but i had a golly doll back in the day and i loved it so much!  None of us thought of it as anything but a toy.  Of course i did live in the countryside and we had no experience of any racial bigotary.  Also collected the badges (when we could afford the good stuff!).   

[kempseykate]

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@*vyolla* wrote:

I don't believe that Golly books were excluded, I just believe that they weren't picked up by eBay. 

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I can assure you, they were excluded at the time. The wording at the time stated that books were excluded - this was the announcement when gollies were first banned. As a book seller at the time, I remember it clearly. Of course there have been many changes to policies since then.

[*vyolla*]

I never saw the wording that stated that books were excluded, if that were the case I'm really surprised that it wasn't picked up on by the media at the time, it's an odd exclusion (I'm not disputing your recollection as you clearly saw it and I just didn't).

However, the current policy and wording you linked to makes it clear that they can no longer be listed. 

I see that the Guardian ran a piece this time last year asking eBay about this, and it appears that eBay will remove the listings (which they say are against their policy) if a national newspaper calls them out about policing their policy:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/12/online-sellers-take-down-golliwog-listings

[keepsakesandkollectables]

Thank you for the replies.

So pretty much what everyone seems to be saying is that ALL products of this criteria are banned, but some just get though the cracks.

That's helpful, as I did think it odd as to why 1 product would be considered offensive & yet another 1 not.

Obviously the main reason I asked initially, was that I obtained a larger collection of pin badges & there were quite a few of this type, which I was going to list.

Luckily I had the forethought to check prior to listing as my brain had something stored about such things & obvioulsy saved myself any hassle or worse still an ebay policy breach  or ban.

Guess they will now sit in a draw gathing dust, from a forgotten era.

Or maybe it time find an alternative selling option & donate the funds to a related anti racial charity.

So again thank you.

[tomo-72]

I just reported the sale of a book called 'The little black sambo'

(166645622033).

According to eBay's customer service team there's nothing wrong with it. It's nice to see their diversity training is going well! There are no words.

[eskisteph58]

I had a book removed last year showing a tiny Golliwog on the front not in the title then this year I had a badge removed with a Golliwog on yet there are several books listed presently on Ebay "The Three Golliwogs" and a tin picture nmed Gollie.

I questioned Ebay about this and asked why I received messages stating my items were offensive material and that I had Violated Ebay policies. I was told to report the items so I did to be then told the items do not violate their policy, so I rang Ebay up to be told that I have been wrongly advised it does violate Ebay policy and they will be removed.

Today instead of items being removed there is more books listed The Three Golliwogs, I despair, if my items were removed under the "You have violated our policies" how come the same items remain listed

[eskisteph58]

When I was advised to report the books listed as mine was removed last year, they came back  stating the books had not violated their policies, so why did mine. Anyway they state you can appeal this decision yet have ignored me about this.

Seems Ebay makes up as they go along as when I rang Ebay they said "The Three Golliwogs" is offensive material and I had been wrongly advised and that the books would be removed yet today even more of the same book have been listed I give in.

[*vyolla*]

Look, none of this is rocket science folks.

A gollywog is a caricature of a person of colour.

People of colour are offended by these images, as are any other half sensible folk. 

You may have collected the Robertsons jam labels or had a soft toy golly in the distant past, but values change over time. 

You cannot list any items featuring a golly - if any slip through the net, if you get a new eBay CS rep in the Phillipines who says you can, well you can't. See Guardian article linked to earlier. However, you shouldn't be wanting to list an item that offends others in the first place. 

[kath3735_wxmjn]

The problem with your last comment is what if everyone found something offensive  about every item.  Who gets to decide?  So many people these days go around looking for things they deem to be offensive.   If the items were made in the current time period i might agree with you but these are old/vintage/antique type ones.   Pretty sure that in todays society there are plenty of people who would find Israeli/Palestine flags offensive, do they get stopped from being sold?    Where does it begin and end?

[eskisteph58]

Agree with you I am not offended one bit my argument is Ebay determined mine was offensive and went against their policies so why is there around 13 books still listed, I was warned not to resist mine, they need to make their mind up about their policies

Sent from Outlook for Android<>

[*vyolla*]

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@kath3735_wxmjn wrote:

The problem with your last comment is what if everyone found something offensive  about every item.  Who gets to decide?  So many people these days go around looking for things they deem to be offensive.   If the items were made in the current time period i might agree with you but these are old/vintage/antique type ones.   Pretty sure that in todays society there are plenty of people who would find Israeli/Palestine flags offensive, do they get stopped from being sold?    Where does it begin and end?

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With respect, that's just the bog standard defence that people always come out with when they try to derail something, they seek to dilute it. Forget about what else might offend (we'll find out soon enough) and focus on what we know does offend. 

Who gets to decide? People of colour have decided, they've told you that they're offended.

Times change and values change and societies come to realise that some things are unacceptable, particularly if they offend a large section of society.  As I've already explained, the gollywog is a caricature and I feel that you'd be hard pushed to find any person of colour finding it acceptable in this day and age. Because it's offensive it's now not allowed on most selling sites. 

You can't use the argument that these are acceptable because they might be old/vintage/antique because they still depict something that is offensive right here right now,  same as you also can't list an antique Greek vase showing adults indulging in dodgy activities with children even though it was the norm and completely acceptable then.  We're judging acceptability on todays values, not values of bygone days.

It begins and ends with respect towards the people that have had the mickey taken out of them for having different coloured skin and different texture hair. Until you walk in their shoes you may not fully understand why you can't list a golly badge, but even if you don't get it you should surely try and respect it.

[eskisteph58]

I certainly do respect people of colour but I don't want to be part of the group of people that find anything and everything offensive. Life is hard enough without finding a need to be offended with everything.

Each to their own but I don't have the time or energy to find a reason to be offended by everything, we can all twist things to suit our views, The amount of items and programmes that are censored to suit the minority isn't fair either.

Sent from Outlook for Android<>

[4_bathrooms]

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@kath3735_wxmjn wrote:

The problem with your last comment is what if everyone found something offensive  about every item.  Who gets to decide? 

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eBay do as it's their marketplace, their rules. 

[eskisteph58]

Very true if only Ebay could make their minds up what their rules are some have had listings removed for being offensive and violating the rules but then you see Ebay allowing other sellers to remain selling the same items that they removed for other sellers.

Consistency is required, Ebay need to apply their rules to all sellers to make it a fair platform for all.

Sent from Outlook for Android<>

[*vyolla*]

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@eskisteph58 wrote:
I certainly do respect people of colour but I don't want to be part of the group of people that find anything and everything offensive. Life is hard enough without finding a need to be offended with everything.

Each to their own but I don't have the time or energy to find a reason to be offended by everything, we can all twist things to suit our views, The amount of items and programmes that are censored to suit the minority isn't fair either.

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Can't say I've ever met a group of people who find anything and everything offensive.

[jckl1957]

I agree entirely @*vyolla* 

I am 67 and, growing up in Norfolk in the 1960s, racism was entirely normal and accepted - even writing that looks wrong, but it is true.

However, it's 2024 and we are all better educated and, hopefully, less ignorant, and more careful and caring.

Several posters refer to the offending items as 'gollies'.  However, the dolls the badges were based on were not called 'gollies',  they were called by a far more offensive name.  I can remember when the last three letters of that name was used casually to define people of colour.  Hopefully, it's a word nobody would even think of using today.

'Gollies' offend. It is a good thing that Ebay don't allow them to be sold.

It is 'unfair' that some items are not removed when reported but Ebay, like life, is not always fair.