@fallen-archie wrote:No I cannot convince you because your mind is made up. We can be isolationist or we can work with others, we can fight for whats right in a forum or we can once more send our young people onto a battlefield to resolve our differences, I am am an Old Fart, you are a venerable lady, but this is not our fight, not our future, we are soon to be compost. The opening of a Polish deli does not spell the end of Britain, we have genuine concerns and worries but they are surmountable, we can shake the EU foundations and force change and that is desirable whichever side of the fence you sit. Nigel Farage is a pawn of the establishment with a mouth bigger than the Thames estuary, stuff the waffle and the narrowminded parochialism, be brave, punch above our weight and make the changes we need to make.
No I cannot convince you because your mind is made up.
That’s your opinion but you can’t read my mind. I suppose you think you know my mind because I have recently posted some songs about leaving in the last day, but I am still open to hearing some convincing reasons to stay and I will not decide for sure until I go to the Polling booth tomorrow. I would like to know why being in the EU is best for young people, so to say you can’t convince me because you think my mind is made up seems like a bit of a cop-out. Is it just that the risks of the unknown far outweigh the certainty of more of the same?
I was unsure for months so posted little about the referendum on here. Less than 2 weeks ago I started to lean towards Brexit because I have spent weeks and weeks reading and watching what I can and I have found little of substance from the remain side, and am getting increasingly disappointed at Cameron’s efforts to convince us; sometimes I even wonder if he is really committed to the EU himself from what he said back in 2014 but of course he has no choice but to fight for it now. However I am willing to listen if someone comes up with something other than rhetoric or threats of war or a disaster for our economy – there are enough top economists who have said that the statistics spouted by Osborne have no real foundation, and the Brits are pretty inventive and resourceful.
I have already said that if I vote to leave it is based mainly on sovereignty and the lack of democracy in the EU, and not on immigration issues as I believe that this will be a challenge whichever way we go. You already know that I am not anti-immigration, but I will say this about it since you mentioned sending young people onto the battlefield. Whether our leaving will result in war in Europe I don’t know (we are still in NATO) but I am pretty sure that if we continue with unsustainable levels of migration in such a small country (in area) that strain our resources much more (accommodation, NHS, jobs etc) there will be a lot of civil unrest and violence in the future within the UK, not to mention the rest of Europe where there are already signs of political polarisation (e.g. Far-right vs Green in Austria and just 0.3% between the vote)
Isolationist
Not sure what you mean by that. There is a whole world out there beyond Europe which is not struggling to weld together countries with different cultures and GDPs. How many more bail-outs will there have to be before the EU can progress as a healthy United State of Europe?
The opening of a Polish deli does not spell the end of Britain.
Of course it doesn’t and in all seriousness who really thinks that other than a small percent that are xenophobes? Certainly I don’t, I regularly shop in 3 of them in a local large town and I have several Polish friends who live and work here. Interestingly many of them have said we should leave, as has a friend who lives and works in Spain – he says even his local Spanish friends have said we would be better off out when they look at the state of their own country.
We have genuine concerns and worries but they are surmountable, we can shake the EU foundations and force change ...... stuff the waffle and the narrowminded parochialism, be brave, punch above our weight and make the changes we need to make.
OK, that sounds great and I could go with it if someone could tell me how. How are we going to shake the EU foundations and force change? In various factual documentaries I have seen about how the EU works and how much influence Britain can exert (or not), I see no mechanism for that and would genuinely like to hear about how that can be done, otherwise it is also waffle.
(BTW – I am not yet a widow with property derived from a late husband, or even dignified or elderly enough to be a Dowager! I shall make no cheeky names for you, but you said you are an old fart so I guess that must be true !! 
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