The end of days.

[cee-dee]

To those who think otherwise...... Science has discovered clear evidence of what will happen to the Solar system and the Earth.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-50665998

[**bustysinclaire**]

Followers of Jesus Christ have been around a lot longer than 150 years susie, in fact as far back as when Jeseus was alive. A specific date cannot possibly be quoted because there is no specific date cited in the bible. The bible gives signs of the times and cronological calculations which tells us the time is near but the scriptures tells the day and hour no one knows except God and it will come as a theif in the night.

If you are aware of the dream and the prophesy then history has proved the claims to be true. 

An alternative to around the corner could be "in the not too distant future" "on the horizon" possibly even "immanent"  because according to the signs and calculations  given in the bible we are living in the time of the end.

I can assure you  susie my faith is not a Blind faith even if that is the only way you can describe it.

And cd may deny bible prophesies have  been fulfilled but again many have and history and archeology has backed up the claims.

[**bustysinclaire**]

---

@**bustysinclaire** wrote:

Followers of Jesus Christ have been around a lot longer than 150 years susie, in fact as far back as when Jeseus was alive. A specific date cannot possibly be quoted because there is no specific date cited in the bible. The bible gives signs of the times and cronological calculations which tells us the time is near but the scriptures tells the day and hour no one knows except God and it will come as a theif in the night.

If you are aware of the dream and the prophesy then history has proved the claims to be true. 

An alternative to around the corner could be "in the not too distant future" "on the horizon" possibly even "immanent"  because according to the signs and calculations  given in the bible we are living in the time of the end.

I can assure you  susie my faith is not a Blind faith even if that is the only way you can describe it.

And cd may deny bible prophesies have  been fulfilled but again many have and history and archeology has backed up the claims.

---

https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/nwt/appendix-b/daniel-2-image/

[suzieseaside]

I'm not stupid, of course I know Christians have been round for a lot longer. Not all Christians are obsessed with constantly and gleefully predicting the end of the world; most are not IMO. The crazy evangelical ones like Harold Camping, Harold Lindsay and David Meade have and they all, like the JWs (who originated as a branch in the 1870s), have got it wrong.
Why do they even bother given that a precise date based on a story book is impossible?

[**bustysinclaire**]

---

@suzieseaside wrote:
I'm not stupid, of course I know Christians have been round for a lot longer. Not all Christians are obsessed with constantly and gleefully predicting the end of the world; most are not IMO. The crazy evangelical ones like Harold Camping, Harold Lindsay and David Meade have and they all, like the JWs (who originated as a branch in the 1870s), have got it wrong.
Why do they even bother given that a precise date based on a story book is impossible?

---

My sincere apologies susie, I wasn't implying you were stupid.

You do seem to have missed my point though, I'll refrase,  even if you don't agree it is the case.

The faith I and all other Jw's faith is the same as those early christians including the Apostles and thinking about it now, even before Christ like those of Noah, King David,Joseph, Moses etc. So much much longer than 150  years.

Charles Taze Russell was not the founder of the faith, just a bible student, rather than continue to be known as bible students the name Jehovahs Witnesses was adopted (as the numbers with the same faith grew) as that is what Jehovah himself described his people as in the bible "You are my witnesses" he said.

Our faith differs from all others, we don't believe we do have it wrong and follow Gods cammands.

And of course the reason.we keep bothering is because we know it isnt just a story book and what it is telling is not impossible.

And the message being given is  a matter of urgency if you believe it.

[bankhaunter]

“For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.  I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” – Mt. 16:27,28

“Tell us, when will these things be (the destruction of the temple), and what will be the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age? . . . This generation will not pass away until all of these things take place.” – Mt. 24:3,34

That didn't happen, I think it could be said Jesus was not one for keeping promises.

[upthecreekyetagain]

Good Lord - are you a supporter of taking what is written in the Bible as the literal truth!

[bankhaunter]

I do practice the mental gymnastics required but I'm not very good at them when it comes to such apparently straighforward statements.

[upthecreekyetagain]

I know what you mean but it does amuse me when I hear, for example, a politician saying they don't believe a word of the opposition's manifesto then they go on to quote that same manifesto to indicate some policy the opposition intends carrying out.

i think that's called having your cake and eating it too.

[bankhaunter]

My belief is no more than the character of Jesus may be based on a messianic preacher, most of the story being invention, I was always deeply suspicious how a Gospel writer would know what was happened when Jesus was supposed to be alone.

However if someone is going to use words from the Bible to make a claim, I see no problem in using other biblical writings to rebut said claim.

[upthecreekyetagain]

I think it's fine to quote the bible, or any other writing, in order to show the inconsistencies within that document or even to quote it in order to show where it has been proven to be correct or incorrect - I don't see the logic though in saying that as a whole you don't believe it to be accurate and then use statements from within it to try and deduce someone's character or what happened historically.

Personally I don't think that the Bible is a history book but that it does contain many laudable moral patterns of behaviour as well as many reprehensible ones. 

[bankhaunter]

I don't see a problem, if someone says according to their book x = y and that is true, I feel perfectly entitled to counter that with, it also says x = z, and ask which is it?

You can also find just as many laudable moral patterns in Dickens, Tolkein, Harry Potter, Shakespeare or any large body of work.

I have had Christians tell me objective morality can only come from the Bible but I've yet to find one that can tell me what that objective morality is.

Usually they are too busy rubbing their hands with glee at the thought of me burning in Hell for eternity and making me laugh in the process.

[cee-dee]

A similar news item to this has appeared in other newspapers but some of the comments below it make for "interesting" reading?:-

https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/10745805/flat-earth-nasa-iss-photo-twitter/

[bankhaunter]

Flat earthers show that even the lunatic fringe has a greater lunatic fringe..

That chap in the red tee shirt is D. Marble, the fool who gained noteriety by taking a bubble level on an aircraft and claimed he proved the Earth was flat because it showed everywhere was level.

There seem the be different types of flerfers, those whose flat earth belief stems from the Bible, those who are anti science and conspiracy theorists and those who know it's not flat and are charlatans milking the gullible from the first two groups.

[upthecreekyetagain]

Of course it is reasonable to point out contradictions in a source document to counter an argument that the whole document is accurate - that is different from drawing a conclusion about an individual or event using only as the source a document which you believe is not reliable.

Dickens, Tolkien etc. do indeed contain moral lessons within their writings but these were preceded by the Bible by many generations.  Off the top of my head I cannot think of a single admirable moral stance included in any literature that I have read that was not also in the Bible.

[bankhaunter]

Why not, if a claim is made using information from a document but other information from the same document states differently, clearly it throws doubt on the veracity of the claim.

Otherwise the person is simply cherry picking, a very common practice among Christians and probably other religions.

[upthecreekyetagain]

I've already said that I think that is reasonable - it's not the same though as drawing a conclusion based solely on statements from a document you don't trust.  Apart from which, the conclusion you draw, (that Jesus was a liar), is not supported by the quotes used - he could just as likely have been delusional - not only that, the 'speeches' may never even have been made.

[bankhaunter]

I didn't say Jesus was a liar, I said he was not one for keeping his promises, evidence for that can be found elsewhere in the Bible, has faith or prayer ever moved anything as promised.

There is no 'morality' in the Bible that cannot be found in earlier writings, morality is the natural result from the evolution of a social intelligent animal in order the group survives and prospers.

The Biblical God can be seen as probably the most heinous monster ever to appear in a work of fiction, no morality to be found there.

[**bustysinclaire**]

---

@bankhaunter wrote:

“For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.  I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” – Mt. 16:27,28

“Tell us, when will these things be (the destruction of the temple), and what will be the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age? . . . This generation will not pass away until all of these things take place.” – Mt. 24:3,34

That didn't happen, I think it could be said Jesus was not one for keeping promises.

---

What is it about that scripture that says Jesus doesnt keep his promises?

Are you referring to what religions describe  Jesus' coming as the "second coming" and it to be to the earth?  then that is not what is being promised. No where inthe bible are we told Jesus will come back on the earth.

The promise came from Jehovah as Jesus does Gods will and not.his own, That promise has already been fulfilled as described in other scriptures used in conjuction with Mathew 24, giving chronological calculations of when he will. The scripture is of Jesus begining to rule as Gods King of his heavenly Government which Jesus began ruling in 1914.

We are still living in the times the bible is describing, in Mathew, the disciple are asking Jesus for signs to determine how to recognise the last days. So you cant really say those promises have not been kept, because the end is still yet to come.

[bankhaunter]

So when did Jesus come into his kingdom, some of the people listening would have to have been still alive?

What exactly happened.

I could point out that JW prophecy has a 100% failure rate, what happened in 1925, other than nothing special?

Most significant dates appear to have been created as such to fit the events at the time rather than prophesying anything.

"WE HAVE no doubt whatever in regard to the chronology relating to the dates of 1874, 1914, 1918, and 1925."

https://archive.org/details/1922WatchtowerArticlesOnChronology/page/n11

[cee-dee]

Referring back to #32, the flat earthers are at it again:-

https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1238922/Flat-Earth-theory-NASA-astronaut-picture-Earth-from-s...