So, now we wait.......

[aernethril]

Yes, I know it's another thread but now the die is cast, one way or another and I wanted to say something about the future.

This has been a truly awful campaign that has to beat all others that I can ever remember for sheer staggeringly blatant lies and deceit from so many.

We have faced nothing less than downright bullying from EU politicians and the contradictory load of tosh and bile that has been spouted in our direction.

I firmly believe that none of this was ever necessary and could have been avoided by Cameron's disgraceful handling of the whole situation and the contemptous way he thought he could bulldoze us into accepting a phoney load of rubbish about one nation (the Polish) getting too much in child benefits, and then to think he could insult the rest of the EU by wheedling and doing blind handshakes which got us preciesly nothing.

I am so ashamed of what he has done to the reputation of the UK.

This was the time that he could have really pushed for change, and if we are so important to the EU, the EU could have committed to radically changing their structure, the rules, the votes.  But we are not that important - only our money is.

Cameron has boasted about how 'big' we are and how strong the UK is, how much growth we've seen in the UK.  I never knew we had food banks until this Government got in but we certainly have seen a huge growth in their numbers and those who are desparate to need them.

And we have a chancellor who has demonstrated nothing but utter deceit, doing more U-turns than a learner driver trying for their nth driving test, and knowingly and blatantly lying about figures for the referendum and within the various budgets before that, with astonishing incompetence in the numbers of those budgets trotted out.

More importantly, David Cameron has overseen the biggest growth in division within our four nations, not just those that have far too much and those that have so little, but set so many people against each other.

Never before has the House of Lords gone as far as dividing from the Govt in voting down a budget - only under his 'leadership'.

This referendum surely has to have caused the biggest division within our society since the 17th Century - the Civil War.

So  now, we wait.

But whatever the outcome one thing is for sure and it will be left to all of us to try and work through this - there is going to be a truly aweful load of people within this very un-United Kingdom who will be left profoundly unhappy and I believe, very understandably, bitter about the future.

I cannot see the division healing because either we face huge changes and upheaval and if anything goes wrong, the nasty pointy fingers will come out and blame those who wanted out, OR we stay in and whatever goes wrong as the EU fails to reform as radically as necessary the the whole gargantuam mess carries on changing all countries in ways that were never originally thought, the pointy fingers come out and blame those who wanted to remain.

I wish everyone well - it's going to be difficult either way, but we might just have a better chance of living with the decision with a new Prime Minister, one who can bring back respect for the UK from all around the world and a Chancellor who can be trusted and looked up to by all nations.

[023mjc]

I've been waiting for 41 years

[theelench]

Just heard on the radio that Leave has officially won the referendum.

I totally agree with you aernethril.

I think the British establishment has become far too complacent and arrogantly assumes it can lead the sheeple wherever it wants.  For far too long they've got away with calling themselves different names but having virtually the same policies so whoever was voted into govt. they carried onwards towards their goals regardless of what the electorate really wants.

As you said we were never that important to Brussels except to pay the bills and buy their exports.  Cameron could and should have made much more of these points to demand change to the EU.  I don't think he bothered because he thought that with a bit of fear and bullying to keep everyone in line we would, as usual, vote for the status quo.  As for the Chancellor, he should resign immediately.

I hope that having seen real democracy for the first time in a couple of generations the two main parties do fragment and reform into something that truly represents the people.  One thing that has surprised me is how many of the leading figures are related to each other, I stupidly thought that went out when one person one vote came in.  All our leading politicians have discredited themselves in the campaign, what a horrible bunch of liars they really are.  What contempt they have for the rest of us.

Although the divisions created by the referendum are huge it might just re-invigorate our failing democracy.  Part of our problem, I think, has been a sense of hopelessness.  That whatever we want we will have no real choice in what we get.  Perhaps the electorate will realise that it doesn't have to vote for the same old faces from the same old parties and start demanding real representation of their views.  That positive attitude in itself could be a great healer.  

[bridget-jones-diary]

I really objected to the government leaflet...spending all our money to promote REMAIN....I also objected to the BBC and (to a lesser extent), ITV's coverage on the run up....doom...gloom ...and they are still at it!!! 2 hours after the out vote and you'd think we were in a rocket heading on a collision course with Mars!!!

After the dust has been allowed to settle there will be some tough negotiations with the EU...we will probably get a trade deal but it might necessitate another referendum like Ireland....we may have won this round but we've not won the battle just yet!

All eyes and ears will be trained on Cameron...

[suzieseaside]

Agreed aerne, and over Turkish accession - oh what a tangled web of lies and deceit  .......................

Turkey unlikely to join EU ‘until the year 3000’, says Cameron

https://next.ft.com/content/de1efd42-2001-11e6-aa98-db1e01fabc0c

SO ... Turkey says Cameron has taken them for a ride

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUAkcG9po1I

BUT

IDS accuses Cameron of ‘lying to the British people’

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEf-EeGU92w

David Cameron  has "colluded" with the Europe and "lied" to the British people about the prospect of Turkey joining the EU, Iain Duncan Smith has said as it emerged that negotiations will reopen within weeks.

The most important chapter, the financial chapter, starts on the 30th June

The Prime Minister has repeatedly insisted that Turkey will not join the European Union until the "year 3000" because it has not done enough to human rights concerns.

However Sir John Major, the former Conservative Prime Minister, yesterday suggested that Turkey could join the European Union within a decade.

---------------

Sheesh - How the hell can anyone tell fact from fiction? I can't keep up with all the lies, accusations and dirty dealings.

This leak apparently was revealed the day before the referendum. Bad timing for Cameron if it was seen by a lot of voters (I didn't see it until after voting). I wonder how much this revelation contributed to the leave vote.  With the Turkish-Kurdish conflict, ISIS oil going through Turkey's borders and who knows what else, Turkish accession is a big problem and we were 'reassured' by Dodgy Dave that they wouldn't be in Europe for at least another 80 years. 

[artful_dodgings]

I believe Dodgy Dave is about to hand in his resignation, according to Piers the Morgan, Susieseaside.

[theelench]

---

@bridget-jones-diary wrote:

All eyes and ears will be trained on Cameron...

---

He has just announced his resignation. 

I'm really glad he has gone after his truly pathetic negotiations on reforming the EU.  They would have walked all over him and ensured that we leave on the worst possible terms.

[fallen-archie]

Just spent a while reassuring staff not born in the UK that they should not worry just yet.
Although I opposed Brexit I respect the decision. We may have been lied to, we may have bad politicians, we certainly did not want more EU bull messing up our lives and our country. So as we enter the Unknown let us hope that the frustrations voiced are heard and a new era of politics emerges.

[astrologica]

The Welsh people voted overwhelmingly out...except for the Cardiff area..where all the money is. Roll on the local council elections next year, when I hope the people feel the same way, and get rid of all the local Labour Councillors who are strangling the valleys here. It has just emerged here that our dear Labour Assembly leader, Carwyn Jones, spent £10.000 of taxpayers money on a private plane to take him to the Wales v England football match recently. He could have travelled by Eurostar for £205. Disgraceful.....

[aernethril]

We can only hope that this will cause a huge shift against the old and corrupt ways of governance - but I sadly have to admit I'm skeptical.

I am also very saddened that so much of the splits have been so close, even in areas in Scotland where the leaders are now saying they will split from the UK, but they are only using this as an excuse which they've been wanting for a long time.

They too have and will continue to be misled over what their 'glorious' future plans would mean.

Damned if we do and damned if we don't.

If we'd voted to stay, nothing would have changed apart from the mayonnaise reverting to salad cream.

The EU leaders are refusing to acknowledge or accept their part in bringing about this result - they are as much, if not more, to blame for the decision.

I do hope, fervently hope that everyone will step back for now and not rush to destroy but to work at rebuilding, but sadly the sharks are circling already.

I am impressed with Mark Carney's comments found at 09:12 on this Telegraph page.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/eu-referendum-live-david-cameron-resigns-as-uk-shocks-the...