OK, in or out?

How about an RT poll?

 

No reasons, no argument, no debate just a straightforward IN or OUT.

 

Me? OUT.



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

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I've already got the Gold Watch, it's on my wrist right now. dance



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

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>> Half the major new regulations now come from the European Union... the Foreign Secretary is today publishing new guidelines for the implementation of EU laws into the UK... (Gordon Brown, Budget speech, 2005)

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2005/mar/16/economy.uk

 

 

 

 

~

 

 

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@mustard-tree wrote:

If the vote goes for OUT (which I hope it does)  will we be able to go back to our feet and inches, lbs and ounces, gallons and pints.


..and do you want 240 pennies in a pound?

________________________________________________________________

Ignore anything under this ^^^^^ line... It's just my signature....
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If we went back to the old systems, there's a whole generation that don't have a clue about them.



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

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There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about June 23rd, and people want to know the facts. Here are some: You are not voting to leave the EEA or WTO, meaning all of the UK's trade and benefit agreements will remain unchanged should we leave, until such a time that the UK decides to renegotiate them for any reason. You are not voting to leave NATO, meaning our security agreements remain unchanged. Should we receive an act of hostility from a non-NATO member, then NATO countries are obliged to come to our assistance. This does not change. You are not voting to leave the UN, G8 or G20, meaning Britain will have the same voice on the world stage as it does today. You are not voting to leave Europe!! The UK will still, geographically, be part of Europe. Non political organisations aligned to Europe will still extend membership to the UK (I.e. sports governing bodies, and so on). You are not voting to stop recognising Interpol, Europol and neither are you voting for SIS / MI6 to stop dealing with other intelligence services in the fight against terrorism and global, organised crime. You are not voting against being able to travel to Europe, contrary to the belief of some fools recently on TV. The UK has always maintained stricter border and passport controls than many EU members. This will not change. You will still use a passport to go on holiday and you will still be allowed entry to countries in Europe. You may even get chance to skip queues by using the non--EU queues at the airport (the only point so far that is my opinion, and not necessarily a fact). The UK economy will benefit to the tune of £billions in the first year after we leave. Medical and science research will not simply stop. The UK pays into the EU to then get money back in the form of funding. The UK will now be in control of this money and can choose to fund whatever UK based medical, science, art or other research it chooses. Farming will not lose money because of EU funding being cut. The UK negotiated a rebate of some monies that the UK pays to the EU, in order to subsidise UK farmers. Instead of asking for our money back, we can give it straight to farmers. No change there. You are not voting against human rights. The EU Convention on, and European Court of Human Rights are not part of the EU. Until parliament passes a new bill of rights for the UK, these will still apply, as will precedents already passed down to UK courts from Brussels. You are not voting to kick anyone out of the UK or block access to anyone. Neither are you voting to stop recruiting valuable European workers into things like the NHS. Like my other point about passports for travel, the UK is already outside of the Schengen zone and so migrant workers must enter the UK with a valid passport before and after June 23rd. That will not change. British borders maintain full control of who comes and goes. Should someone have the skills to apply to work in the NHS, then they will still be permitted travel and given an opportunity to apply for a job. Worst case, points based assessment, like the US, Canada and Australia use, will come into effect. The UK is likely to negotiate freedom of labour movement though, in exchange for freedom of goods movement. You are not voting to move jobs nor production out of the UK! The EU actually helped fund the move of Ford Transit production from the UK to Turkey... Yes, the EU helped give UK jobs to people in Turkey by giving Ford a loan of £80m with very generous terms! What you are voting for is UK sovereignty. You are voting to stay in or leave a political union of leaders and representatives that you British people did not elect. You are voting against a commission of unelected, elite men that nobody at all voted for and yet they make decisions on our behalf. You are simply voting to bring sovereignty back to Westminster, and that is all. If you worry about that because you don't like the Conservative government, look at the reality. Their majority in parliament is very slim. They have been blocked on big decisions already. You are therefore not giving sovereignty to David Cameron, but to the UK House of elected representatives. Do not be fooled by the fear campaigns that are simply run by the wealthy, who need EU money to thrive! Think about the future, and your family's future.
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It's a shame you didn't add some paragraphs and/or line spaces to that excellent bit of info.



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

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Excellent summary

 

Just one thing missing - you are voting to leave the single market.

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

Excellent summary

 

Just one thing missing - you are voting to leave the single market.


With the way trade with the EU has dropped over the years i doubt that will matter soon enough anyway.

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@astrologica wrote:

So Creeky...you think the prospects for the young are more varied. Have you got youngsters working their socks off in the hope of one day owning their own home? They haven't got a hope in hell unless Granny and Grandad help them out, or they can go to the Bank of Mum and Dad. Some of them can't even get a job, and when they do it's for peanuts because of the low wages being driven down by immigrants . But then...as we are in the EU they can always go and work in Romania or Albania or in one of the other poverty stricken EU countries. The way of life in those countries is almost Medieval...that's why they all want to live HERE!

And most of what is bandied about by the Remainians is just fear inducing supposition. No-one knows what is going to happen whichever way the vote goes. I'm not listening to the endless recitation of figures...billions here, millions there...I am looking at what's happening in the Mediterranean, and now in the English Channel. I see that on TV and I know that that is true...it is not actors playing those migrants..they are real. That is enough for me. I am voting out for my grandchildren.


Yes I do - do you really remember 1973!

 

Sure if your dad was a miner you had every 'hope ' of spending a short life underground - your dad a steel worker, then you would surely follow them - dockers, ship builders, farmer, car worker and so on - opportunities to escape were few and far between.

 

Education for those outside the middle and upper classes has totally changed as have opportunities to do something different.  Not because of planning by UK or EU politicians but in spite of them.

 

House prices have gone up - this has put youngsters in the middle earning range at a disadvantage but there's one simple reason for that - BRITISH governments of all varieties haven't built enough houses!  _ we haven't got enough social housing, planning restrictions have discouraged developers and we haven't ensured that those houses we do have remain habitable - NONE of that is down to membership of the EU - there is NO EU regulation restricting the building of new houses. So much for sovereignty and the will of the people being heard!

 

I don't care if we stay in the EU or not - won't make the slightest difference to me whether we are told what we can do by a bunch of two faced bureaucrats in Brussels or in London - they don't care about me, they don't care about you and if you really think any of the politicians supporting either campaign have chosen their stance based on what they think will be best for the country then you are living in cloud cuckoo land!

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http://news.sky.com/story/1708070/eu-rules-let-50-violent-criminals-stay-in-uk



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

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'Speaking on Sky News, Lord Mandelson, the remain campaigner, accused Vote Leave of "distorting" facts and said that while it was right to raise the 50 criminals, people must take into account the 6,500 criminals rounded up and deported from the UK since 2010 because of the European Arrest Warrant.

 

He said: "They take a germ of truth, they then generalise from it and in the process they distort the real picture."'

 

Something both sides, including Lord Mandelson and many on this thread, are guilty of!

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Yeeees, very true ain't it Creeky?:-

 

"However, Mr Raab told Sky News Lord Mandelson was conflating two issues and pointed out that extradition was different to deportation.

 

Mr Raab said that the UK removed eight times as many non-EU nationals as EU nationals from the country, highlighting the restrictive nature of the rules."



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

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If we weren't in the EU in the first place, those 6.500 criminals probably wouldn't have been here committing criminal acts, so we wouldn't have had the problem of rounding them up and sending them home.

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Creeky..the problem is not that we have not built enough houses...the problem is that we have TOO MANY PEOPLE! We cannot go on allowing immigration to soar to unmanageable levels, and have everyone bleating that we haven't built enough houses. No-one seems to be looking at the problem logically......small island...too many people. Are we going to end up with no green space, no countryside, because we fail to control our numbers? Is that what YOU want? Where will YOU draw the line and say enough is enough?  The whole world has too many people. We are breeding ourselves out of existence, and this country is where most people would like to live.

And twenty years down the line it will be much much worse...with Muslim in comers having loads of children and they all get families of their own and need houses.....where are they going to go? For Gods sake....wake up  (I say that and I don't even believe inGod) .I hope everyone who has a vote takes a moment to look into the future and do some logical thinking. And aside of the housing problem...the social problems would be huge. Anyone who has a Utopian rosy view of peoples of all races and religions living in perfect harmony needs to get real.  For me , the immigration problem is the biggest worry,and the main reason I will be voting OUT.

When you put two mice in a cage they breed. Then the babies breed. Then they outgrow the cage. Then they start to eat each other.

 

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The problem with that argument though is that leaving the EU will make immigration control MORE difficult not less so!

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And how do you explain that? Been listening to Dave and his cronies have you?

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No - it just seems common sense.

 

Over half the legal immigrants to this country over the last 5 years are not EU citizens.  Membership of the EU is therefore irrelevant with regards to that group.

 

The 'out' campaign are keen to point out that students from the EU will be encouraged to attend our universities and colleges - that a point system will be in force for higher educated potential immigrants, doctors, nurses, teachers, engineers etc.  That exemptions will be made for entry by those working in the 'care', agriculture, building sectors and also probably the hospitality sector.  Every time a spokesperson is challenged over how a particular industry would manage without immigrant workers there is a fudge or total failure to answer the question.

 

So even if we don't join the single market after an exit vote, (which would require the free movement of EU workers), a large proportion of those coming to this country from the EU nations for employment or education would still be able to gain entry.

 

But the elephant in the room is illegal immigration or more relevantly illegal workers - they contribute nothing to the Exchequer, they are a health risk as well as driving down the earnings of the low paid.  There is no doubt in my mind that exit from the EU will make control of our borders more difficult - we have an open border between Eire and Northern Ireland that would need resources to control - if Scotland leaves the UK and joins the EU ther is then yet another open border.  

 

Cooperation with the French to prevent illegal immigrants from crossing the channel would suffer.

 

An even simpler reason to be sceptical of the Brexit campaign is the blatant lie written large on the side of the Boris Battle Bus - "We send the EU £350 million a week" - No we don't - simples - so how do you explain that lie?

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I'm not absolutely sure on this point, but isn't the European Court of Human Rights; accessible to non EU migrants, as well as EU migrants.  So, once here, can't non EU migrants appeal to the ECOHR; when threatened with deportation ?? I'm not sure about Abu Hamza's full nationality status, but I do know he held Jordanian citizenship and that didn't stop his appeal to the ECOHR; which as we know, caused us no end of problems getting rid of him.

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