OK, in or out?

[cee-dee]

How about an RT poll?

No reasons, no argument, no debate just a straightforward IN or OUT.

Me? OUT.

[evoman3957]

Maybe it's having been around so much and having done so much...........but the more desperate somebody is to get me to do something, the more I KNOW it's for THEIR benefit..............NOT mine !!  Survival is a very individual thing and your experience in life, can be the crucial factor.........being relative; one can ask " whose got the most experience " a man who's had the same experience a thousand times ( normally referred to as an expert ).......or the man whose had a thousand different experiences. I suggest the more bases you've covered, the more you'll know what to expect the second time around and be equipped & ready to deal with it.

[baybizz]

[cee-dee]

OUT.

[fallen-archie]

[evoman3957]

I must confess, that although the campaigning has supposedly only just started in earnest; I'm sick to death of it already. So many of my fellow countrymen, depress the hell out of me and if they can't or won't see what I see by now ; then I'm wasting my time talking to them. They get taken into an organisation, under completely false pretences, which is sold as friends and partners, in a mutually beneficial free trade area, voluntarily communicating and trading for each others benefit. It morphs into some corrupt, wasteful and dictatorial monster, that rules all under the same hammer......stifling the growth and potential of those countries, with the ability........while tying them to countries with 3rd world economies and stone age morals...........and what do these brilliant, English, warrior, fellow countrymen of mine say......." Oh well, we're in it now; we might as well stay there.......too much trouble trying to get out " JESUS CHRIST........If they were up to their armpits in a festering sewer.......I bet they'd say the same thing.........What's happened to this country in the last 60 odd years, since all those millions, that did have a backbone, gave up their lives to make it FREE.......free to rule itself, make its own laws and shape its own destiny. Lets all become like North Korea shall we, millions and millions at organized marches and ceremonies; like little clones........all seriously believing that they are thinking for themselves........that's me done, as you can tell, I don't handle " Pathetic " very well.

[cee-dee]

One thing wrong with that.

"all seriously believing that they are thinking for themselves". No they're not, they're there because they're too afraid not to be and know what the consequences will be if they're suspected of "disrespect".

[evoman3957]

That's why us getting a chance to leave, without fear of paying with our lives, should be grabbed with both hands. We've got the chance to rectify a mistake, for naively believing in a Utopia and not knowing people for what they really are. It won't come again, we either get totally absorbed by this expanding, dominating regime.......or we become the people, all those who died for.......hoped we would be.

[fallen-archie]

I won't be dragged into something I don't believe in and I am certainly not beholding to anyone. I know that there are many problems to manage within the EEC and we may not overcome them all but I like the idea of working with others, sharing ideas and breaking down barriers rather than erecting new ones.

[cee-dee]

Barriers are fine if the unwanted are kept out by them and the wanted are able to freely access the many legitimate entrances.

[******lynda******]

Britain fought two world wars to avoid being dictated to by, let's face it, Germans. I'm half German, btw. People died to ensure uk could self govern. Yet now, some seem determined that we should give away more and more of our rights. They say, be in it to change it. The EU won't reform on our say so. We have no power to reform it, or we could have done it in the last 40 years. The EU is intractable.

Back in the day, Ted Heath manipulated our joining against huge protests here. They sold our fishing and farming industries down the river then, to get in. We played by those rules, nevertheless. Other EU countries ignored them as it suited.

The EU is falling apart. France just got a bail out. ?..they tried the 'ban austerity ' route and it broke them. Greece just shut all its banks and is having to get extra support, Italy is getting bailed out now.

For me, Dan Hannan MEP since 1999 says it all. He knows how it works, what goes on and wants UK out. Puts him out of a job, but he thinks it's the right thing to do.

Our laws are created in Europe by unelected people we cannot sack. 27 European Commissioners that no one elected.

Democratically elected leaders, in Greece and Italy have been forced out and replaced with Eurocrats.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k5Udc8VmlMk

https://www.facebook.com/probritish/videos/10153885058080912/?pnref=story

[jd.linklater]

I watched Question Time last night and thought Dan Hannan made a very convincing case for getting out.

Got the government leaflet today, these are supposed to be the highlights of the UK's much trumpeted Special Status deal.............

We will not join the Euro

We will keep our own border controls

The UK will not be part of further European political integration

There will be tough new restrictions on access to our welfare system for new EU migrants

We have a commitment to reduce  EU red tape.

So what's special about that? The first four points are all achievable outside the constricts of the EU and the last one won't even be applicable if we leave. The rest of the leaflet amounts to little more than scaremongering in my opinion.

I'm still in the OUT camp.

[fallen-archie]

No worries folks, the last time I backed a winner I took home 2/6p 😀

[cee-dee]

I forgot to say, it's fine working with others who want to work with you, but when you try to work with them and they clearly demonstrate that they want you to work for them, it's time to take a different road.

[upthecreekyetagain]

You can still get 2/1 against a 'Leave' vote - the best I can find for a 'Stay' vote is 9/4

[aernethril]

---

@jd.linklater wrote:

I watched Question Time last night and thought Dan Hannan made a very convincing case for getting out.

Got the government leaflet today, these are supposed to be the highlights of the UK's much trumpeted Special Status deal.............

We will not join the Euro

We will keep our own border controls

The UK will not be part of further European political integration

There will be tough new restrictions on access to our welfare system for new EU migrants

We have a commitment to reduce  EU red tape.

So what's special about that? The first four points are all achievable outside the constricts of the EU and the last one won't even be applicable if we leave. The rest of the leaflet amounts to little more than scaremongering in my opinion.

I'm still in the OUT camp.

---

Cameron has been reported as admitting he had no idea what he was going to ask for, and IMO he shamed the UK with his game playing.

The issue of the Euro is a non-starter as it was never going to happen.

The border controls is a load of bunkumb becaus a) after 4 years we cannot stop any of todays migrants to the EU from coming into our shores and b) we've got such lousy border controls due to cut backs in funding and training that they're seeping in all the time.

The policy non-integration makes a mockery of our membership because it means we'll have even less rights or influence within the EU.

The restriction on access to welfare is, IMO THE most appalling of claims by dave that he got us a special deal because it's not just utterly ludicrous that welfare such as child benefit can be claimed even partially in two countries when it ought to be only claimable in the country where the child lives across the whole of the EU  (so no-one is a special case), the deal that has been rigged up is going to cost a small fortune to administer by the DWP!!!

The statement that there is a commitment to reduce red tape - I keep hearing the Remain lobby going on about a "reformed EU" is also bunkumb because dave has negotiated a reduced influence for the UK anyway and there is nothing coming from the EU about getting serious reforms and reduction in the bureaucracy and profligate expenditure which keeps failed policitions and anonymous administrators in their exravagant lifestyles.

There was a very good programme some days ago on Radio 4 where people from other EU countries visiting over here, were asked their opinions and it was really refreshing to listen to 'ordinary' people who had a far greater understanding of the UK's position than any politician has given and what they felt was probalby the right course for us versus what they would rather we did from their point of view.

It took an Irish politician to be the first that I heard a couple weeks ago on another programme to actually say that he really hoped the UK would not leave as the EU needed us.

None of the nasty threats about how we'll lose all employment rights, for example (so we are being threatened with losing all rights because neither the Govt nor Labour would be prepared to introduce legislation to keep the same or similar legal rights?  Isn't that a kind of blackmail?)

Not just none of the threats about national security but an actual admission from so many other countries as to how important the UK is to international security, but also pointing out that just because a country isn't a part of the EU, doesn't mean it won't or cannot share information on terrorist and other warfaring threats.

A golden opportunity has been squashed as surely as a hippo trampling on a newt's eggs and I believe it would have made all the difference to so many and driven the EU to change.

But no, we are told you vote yes or no and THAT - IS - IT!

So, because we have an effete 'leader' of the UK, instead of being able to hold our standing internationally, whatever the outcome, we will be diminished.

Just a load of power-corrupted, stupid pointless gits, the lot of them!

[artful_dodgings]

What I fail to understand is the mindset of those who subscribe to the idea that staying in this dictatorial and bureaucratic ensemble, will be a platform for making changes in the future. Really ? ? ?

They certainly haven't shown any submissive or compliant tendencies in the last few decades. In fact quite the reverse. They're intransigent and immovable.

[evoman3957]

Saw some peanut brained politician ( councillor ) from Kent on TV tonight, who said he thought we should stay in; because Kent would miss the £40 million a year they get from the EU ( for some reason or another ).  He forgot to mention the £161 million A DAY we would stop having to pay for club membership ( and that's AFTER taking off the rebate etc. etc. from what we actually pay in ).

[fallen-archie]

Contingency plans are in place to enter into a new free trade agreement with Togo and Benin, we will retain sovereignty and be able to by coconut milk, mealie pup and salted snapper in exchange for Scottish shortbread, Welsh steel and English wine gums. That should see us through😀

[cee-dee]

Does every thread have to degenerate in to childish, unfunny comments?

The sooner we're out of the EU the sooner we can properly enforce border controls and immigration status without having to bend over backwards to satisfy EU politically correct rules.

No matter who they are or where they're from, these immigrants seem determined not to integrate or even learn the language.

Look at the following link and read about an over-stayer who's been here for 11 years (over-staying for 10) but still needs an interpreter to follow any case brought against him:-

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/illegal-workers-found-wrexham-prison-11195465

OUT.

[upthecreekyetagain]

Maybe you can explain to me how leaving the EU will assist in preventing illegal immigrants from entering the country.

Everything I've heard from the 'Stay' campaign suggests that leaving the EU will make it far more difficult, especially in respect of the Calais/Dover crossing, to enforce border control as well as meaning that the Eire/Northern Ireland border will have to be made secure as well as potentially the Scottish/England border which will stretch resources even moreso than they currently are.