Electric shock dog collars

[rosemary1398]

I was just looking for a new dog collar. I was shocked to see ebay selling electric shock collars for dogs. They are without doubt not effective at all. They are however extremely painful and do irreparable damage. Am I on my own with these thoughts, in fact is it legal to sell these in the U.K.  Disgusted with eBay.

[*guinevere*]

I agree with you as animal welfare is one of my soap box things.

However if they are not prohibited by ebay then sellers are doing nothing illegal by selling them. 

I searched for prohibited items and got as far as "Animal Products" but I haven't had time to scrutinise it properly. Here is the link for you to read yourself:

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/wildlife.html

[upthecreekyetagain]

The sale of these collars is legal across the U.K. - their use in Wales has been illegal since 2010.

[evoman3957]

I don't have a Dog at this moment in my life, but I've had dogs most of my life.  I'm not aware that getting love, respect & loyalty can be achieved by inflicting pain..........just my opinion of course.

[*guinevere*]

Absolutely.

I hate cruelty of any sort. My weakness is cats. But I love dogs too, and have had several over the years. I would never dream of hurting them, or indeed any other animal.

I suppose we should be thankful that ebay doesn't allow the sale of live anmals on its site.

[023mjc]

Gumtree does - owned by ebay.

[*guinevere*]

Yes I know. And it's shameful.

[rosemary1398]

It is disgusting. What can be done about it though?

[lambsy_uk]

Don't have a problem with these, especially as they are legal. I understand that animal lovers may be upset but I'm not so soft on pets myself. Do we use Cattle Prods on Cows? Always remember that your disgust is just your  own emotion and opinion, not all are too bothered!

[*guinevere*]

If you are not bothered about whether an animal is suffering or is in pain why bother posting

Fortunately the majority of people do care enough to not buy these horrid things, .

Personally I think there is something wrong with people who lack basic humanity and don't have any empathy with the rest of the creatures who share this planet with us.

[rosemary1398]

The cattle that you refer too are a herding animal and spend the majority of their lives with not much human company. The dog is a domesticated animal, and is a companion to a lot of people, indeed if you look at farm dogs, police dogs, guide dogs all service dogs I doubt they would get the results they desire if they use force and pain. There are friendly collars that you can buy to encourage a dog to reduce its barking. I believe these transmit a recording of the owners voice. However there is no substitute for training a dog yourself, with kindness and patience, it is so rewarding. Remember also that a dogs bark is his voice. Can you imagine what that must be like when a device controls your voice and you have no control over it, confusing, Scarry and painful.  Anyone who has to use this control should never own a dog.

[aand2136-voqfz8yx]

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@rosemary1398 wrote:

 Anyone who has to use this control should never own a dog.

---

I'm glad someone has written this bit, because too many dogs are noisy and many dogs, that are not viewed in the eyes of the law as "dangerous dogs", are aggressive. There are many incidences where children and adults are injured and even killed by such dogs. I write this as someone who suffered a dog attack when I was a young child - my left ear was bitten off. It was sewn back on. All dogs have sharp teeth with large canines and most medium size dogs upwards are more than capable of seriously injuring someone.

I wouldn't advocate the use of an electric shock dog collar, but a sudden attack by an aggressive dog could be controlled by one. After all the police use Tasers on humans. A more effective solution would be Rosemary's, these owners "should never own a dog", but as we all know, they do!

[evoman3957]

I've never left a Dog alone in a room with a Child, or visa versa, in my life..........it's just a mindset one has to get into; a bit like using indicators when driving a Car. It's really not that hard and after a while, becomes a normal habit. As for any supposed teaching aid, that uses paid as its main ingredient; that produces behavioural problems, as well as short term fixes. In the long run, pain produces resentment and is a stimulus that, once withdrawn, sees the recipient revert to type. In fact, not just revert to type; but do so with a more aggressive nature than the recipient had before.

[aand2136-voqfz8yx]

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@evoman3957 wrote:

I've never left a Dog alone in a room with a Child, or visa versa, in my life..........it's just a mindset one has to get into; a bit like using indicators when driving a Car.

---

As it should be, but we know what it's like at a roundabout. Is he turning off or not? Parents will always hold a childs hand when crossing the road and then an hour later do nothing when the same child starts pulling at the family Alsation's ears.

When I was attacked I wasn't at home, though fortunately very nearby.

---

@evoman3957 wrote:

As for any supposed teaching aid, that uses paid as its main ingredient; that produces behavioural problems, as well as short term fixes. In the long run, pain produces resentment and is a stimulus that, once withdrawn, sees the recipient revert to type. In fact, not just revert to type; but do so with a more aggressive nature than the recipient had before.

---

Very good point and I wholeheartedly agree, resentment and increasing aggression will be the result; they shouldn't be used a teaching aids. However, if a dog has aggressive tendencies, the use of such collars, in the same way the police use a taser, can control a sudden aggressive act. You could argue that a sudden aggressive act should not happen with a well trained and obedient dog, but they are not all trained, they do not all have capable owners.

For example, an elderly mild mannered dog that walks to heel and sits when told, would probably never need one, but a 3 year Alsation who's having it ears torn off every 5 minutes and whose owners do nothing, then that's a different matter. It's not the dogs fault, but such an example is a catastrophe waiting to happen. Surely anything that stops such a catastrophe, whatever the initial cause of that attack, is better than a child or adult being savaged.

So I agree, not as a training aid, but more as a preventative tool.

[lambsy_uk]

---

elephantsdodaintydancing wrote:

If you are not bothered about whether an animal is suffering or is in pain why bother posting

Fortunately the majority of people do care enough to not buy these horrid things, .

Personally I think there is something wrong with people who lack basic humanity and don't have any empathy with the rest of the creatures who share this planet with us.

---

This is a discussion board, no more reason needed for me to bother posting!

Rosemarie asked if she were alone in the way she felt and it appears she is not, however I felt I should address the ballance a bit by letting you know that not everyone feels the same way.

As for having empathy for other creatures; well it seems that depends on how you feel about these creatures. To some cattle don't deserve the same considerations as domestic animals, I find this rather odd. Personally I have no deep fellings for domesticated animals, they're not my thing, I'd be more concerend about the journey an animal took before ending up on my plate. Perhaps if we took to eating dogs as they do in some civilised societies I'd find myself being more concerened.

[lambsy_uk]

---

@rosemary1398 wrote:

The cattle that you refer too are a herding animal and spend the majority of their lives with not much human company. The dog is a domesticated animal, and is a companion to a lot of people, indeed if you look at farm dogs, police dogs, guide dogs all service dogs I doubt they would get the results they desire if they use force and pain. There are friendly collars that you can buy to encourage a dog to reduce its barking. I believe these transmit a recording of the owners voice. However there is no substitute for training a dog yourself, with kindness and patience, it is so rewarding. Remember also that a dogs bark is his voice. Can you imagine what that must be like when a device controls your voice and you have no control over it, confusing, Scarry and painful.  Anyone who has to use this control should never own a dog.

---

So if they are hearding animals with little human company their welfare is of lesser sisgnificance, I see. Not the way I feel about it but each to their own.

I personally don't see why an animal being domesticated should set it aside for special treatment. If you value a particular dog as a companion then fine but surely we don't all have to value them in the same way.

[lambsy_uk]

---

@aand2136-voqfz8yx wrote:

---

@rosemary1398 wrote:

 Anyone who has to use this control should never own a dog.

---

I'm glad someone has written this bit, because too many dogs are noisy and many dogs, that are not viewed in the eyes of the law as "dangerous dogs", are aggressive. There are many incidences where children and adults are injured and even killed by such dogs. I write this as someone who suffered a dog attack when I was a young child - my left ear was bitten off. It was sewn back on. All dogs have sharp teeth with large canines and most medium size dogs upwards are more than capable of seriously injuring someone.

I wouldn't advocate the use of an electric shock dog collar, but a sudden attack by an aggressive dog could be controlled by one. After all the police use Tasers on humans. A more effective solution would be Rosemary's, these owners "should never own a dog", but as we all know, they do!

---

Yes any idiot can have a dog just like any idiot can have children, another debate perhaps. There certainly are plenty of unfit pet owners around and all dogs have a risk factor. I wouldn't suggest a shock collar is an ideal measure but where as many see cuddly fluffy lovely companions I often see noisey unsociable pain-in- the-ass dogs. When you have my experiences of dogs your love and concern for them tends to diminish. Yes perhaps the fault is of the owner but a pain in the ass nonetheless. 

[lambsy_uk]

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@aand2136-voqfz8yx wrote:

---

@evoman3957 wrote:

I've never left a Dog alone in a room with a Child, or visa versa, in my life..........it's just a mindset one has to get into; a bit like using indicators when driving a Car.

---

As it should be, but we know what it's like at a roundabout. Is he turning off or not? Parents will always hold a childs hand when crossing the road and then an hour later do nothing when the same child starts pulling at the family Alsation's ears.

When I was attacked I wasn't at home, though fortunately very nearby.

---

@evoman3957 wrote:

As for any supposed teaching aid, that uses paid as its main ingredient; that produces behavioural problems, as well as short term fixes. In the long run, pain produces resentment and is a stimulus that, once withdrawn, sees the recipient revert to type. In fact, not just revert to type; but do so with a more aggressive nature than the recipient had before.

---

Very good point and I wholeheartedly agree, resentment and increasing aggression will be the result; they shouldn't be used a teaching aids. However, if a dog has aggressive tendencies, the use of such collars, in the same way the police use a taser, can control a sudden aggressive act. You could argue that a sudden aggressive act should not happen with a well trained and obedient dog, but they are not all trained, they do not all have capable owners.

For example, an elderly mild mannered dog that walks to heel and sits when told, would probably never need one, but a 3 year Alsation who's having it ears torn off every 5 minutes and whose owners do nothing, then that's a different matter. It's not the dogs fault, but such an example is a catastrophe waiting to happen. Surely anything that stops such a catastrophe, whatever the initial cause of that attack, is better than a child or adult being savaged.

So I agree, not as a training aid, but more as a preventative tool.

---

Well perhaps the best preventaive tool is not to have a dog in the first place, or not let these idiots have kids. However it is nice to see somone who has a bit more concern for the welfare of humans than they do for damn dogs!

[cmelow35]

I was horrified to find that Ebay are selling these shock collars that cause pain to dogs. I am aware that they are not prohibited to be sold on Amazon. They should definitely not be selling these collars. They are cruel and cause unnecessary suffering. If collars are required for dog training then there are painless alternatives i.e. citronella collars or vibration collars with sound.

I have tried to report this to Ebay as I believed they might not be aware of the difference in collars available. Ebay should remove these items immediately.

[cmelow35]

I made in an error in the above posting. I meant to say that Amazon do not allow these collars to be put on their site.