Does the UK want another WAR.

[tommy.irene]

BBC News......It is understood the most likely military response to Wednesday's suspected chemical weapons attack would be a one-off or limited guided missile strikes on Syrian military targets fired from US Navy warships.

Mr Cameron has spoken to a number of foreign leaders over the bank holiday weekend, including US President Barack Obama and his French and German counterparts.

The prime minister and Mr Obama agreed the need for a "firm response" from the international community to the attack.

Downing Street said Mr Cameron had used a phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin to tell him there was "little doubt" a chemical weapons attack had been carried out by President Bashar al-Assad's regime.

But Mr Putin told him they had no evidence an attack had taken place or who was responsible, it said.

'Fabricated' footage

Russia, a key ally of Syria, has warned any intervention without a UN mandate would be "a grave violation of international law".

[tommy.irene]

Don't start what you can't finish, warn the top brass: Britain's leading military experts explain how the West should react to Syria

As Britain, America and France threaten to launch missile strikes against Syria, IAN DRURY asks some of Britain’s leading military experts what the West should do...

LORD WEST OF SPITHEAD 

Former First Sea Lord and security adviser in Gordon Brown’s Labour government: 

‘We have to be absolutely crystal clear in our own minds that the use of chemical weapons was by the regime. If it was, then I think we can persuade Russia to sign a UN resolution that condemns a head of state for using them against their own people. That seems to be the first move.

‘I’m very wary of military action, even if it is a limited missile strike. What do we hope to achieve? Where will it lead?

‘What if Assad says, “get lost”, and uses chemical weapons again? Are we going to escalate military action? I have a horrible feeling that one strike would quickly become more.

‘The region is a powder keg. We simply can’t predict which way military action will go and whether it would draw us, unwillingly, further into a conflict.’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2402406/Syria-Dont-start-finish-warn-brass.html#ixzz2dBxf4... 

[tommy.irene]

Immature advisers, moral indignation and the folly of wading into this bloody morass

The Prime Minister seems to see in the crisis that has overtaken Syria his own Falklands moment

The Prime Minister seems to see in the crisis that has overtaken Syria his own Falklands moment, a chance to play the statesman and even warlord on the world stage. 

Almost everyone else, however, including the U.S. President, sees a hideously intractable situation in which we meddle at our peril.

Downing Street has told the media that we may expect to see Western cruise missiles launched against Syrian government installations within a matter of days.

Parliament is expected to be recalled to debate the issue today, which presumably means that air strikes may follow soon after.

Downing Street has not, however, indicated what the  purpose or expectations of  such strikes should be, save  to give President Assad a severe whacking.

We can all see that Syria’s leader is an evil and murderous dictator. It is probably true that he is using chemical weapons against his enemies. 

Russia’s support for Assad lays bare the nastiness of the regime of President Vladimir Putin, who aspires to play the part of a pocket Stalin.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2402329/Immature-advisers-moral-indignation-folly-wading-b... 

[tommy.irene]

COLONEL RICHARD KEMP

Former Commander of British Forces in Afghanistan: 

‘If the Syrian regime carried out a nerve agent attack, then a limited but 
devastating surgical air strike is not only justified but necessary in order to send 
a clear message to Assad.

‘It is essential that the US and UK base their decision on the best possible 
chemical analysis, backed up by firm intelligence to confirm who was responsible.

‘Of course our governments will need to be prepared to follow up with a second, more severe, wave of attacks if Assad responds with another chemical strike or some other outrage. But we must not be drawn into a protracted campaign, either in the air or on the ground. It would not be long before all sides turned against us.

‘And while it will be possible – under the table – to square a swift and limited intervention with Russia, a wider operation would be much more likely to develop into a proxy war or worse.

.........[  ‘Nor should we supply rebel fighters dominated by Islamist extremists with anti-aircraft or anti-armour missiles: they are sworn enemies of the West.’   ]..

GENERAL SIR MICHAEL ROSE

Former SAS commander and leader of United  Nations Protection Force in Bosnia in 1994-95: 

‘The credibility of America hinges on Obama doing something after he said use of chemical weapons was a “red line” that couldn’t be crossed.

‘I am not against a military strike, but the intelligence has got to be good and the target has got to be very specific; so specific that it identifies the unit that carried out the attacks.

‘If not, we will be seen to be siding with the rebels – and that should not be the business of the Western powers. We don’t know what the outcome is going to be, and we could end up with people in power who are worse even than Assad.

‘We need to be imposing an arms embargo and a no-fly zone, which would reduce the level of the violence. This is a total lose-lose situation for the people of Syria. But however terrible their suffering is with Assad and his brutal ways, the end result of an escalating arms race will be to make things worse. The suffering will only be greater.’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2402597/Syria-crisis-Britains-armed-forces-draw-plans-milita... 

[Anonymous]

Wor dave wont go to war, he likes his hols to much, apart from that with his partys cut backs exactly what have we got to spare and still keep the UK safe.

[cee-dee]

Toe-Nee is all for it.

[tommy.irene]

ABOUT 12 HOURS AGO

Iran warns the West against intervening in Syria

Iran has warned against foreign military intervention in Syria, saying the resulting conflict would engulf the region.

Iran, which is supporting Assad against rebels seeking to overthrow him, has said rebels were behind the suspected attack and said the West was using it as a pretext to intervene in Syria.

"We want to strongly warn against any military attack in Syria. There will definitely be perilous consequences for the region," Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman Abbas Araqchi told a news conference.

"These complications and consequences will not be restricted to Syria. It will engulf the whole region."

[tommy.irene]

ABOUT 9 HOURS AGO

Syrian army 'utterly and completely not behind attack'

Syrian foreign minister Walid Muallem denied "utterly and completely" that state forces had been behind the chemical attack.

At a press conference in Damascus, he said:

They said that the Syrian forces, the Syrian army are the ones who did this attack. I deny it utterly and completely.

There is no country in the world who would use an ultimate destruction weapon against his own people.

Mr Muallem claimed that the regime had not attempted to obstruct weapons inspectors from visiting the site while evidence was still fresh.

We didn't argue about the site they wanted to go to. We agreed immediately. There's no delay.

[tommy.irene]

Remember ..Tony told us about weapons of mass  destruction and there was none..So who let the GAS off..

[tommy.irene]

Ill take my chance and die old..

[lhasa.two]

"Some of those rebels are bad guys."

And that's the reason why the UK and US haven't intervened earlier...

It is a 'Civil war' and the West doesn't have an opposition group to Assad on the moderate side who they can support effectively for a either a regime change or a change in behaviour by the existing regime.

I think it's a nightmare situation that should never have been allowed to get this far. There's so much the West, Russia and China could have done to negotiate with Assad. Instead we are now, yet again, in a situation where we are considering the use of military intervention when the emphasis should be on negotiation and humanitarian aid.

We never seem to learn from our past mistakes, Egypt and Libya come to mind. I get sick and tired of hearing the word 'democracy' when there isn't a cat in hell's chance of it happening in these countries until there are secular governments and religion is stripped out of political leadership.

[al**bear]

Don't know if the thread title is correct, we as usual will tag along hanging off the American coat tails

All going to plan ? (dreamt up after 1st Gulf War)

Civil & Sectarian wars all over the non OIL rich Muslim World , do you notice the West is very quiet over the heavy & violent clamp down on demonstrators and the Oppossion in the Gulf States. The US is now nearly self sufficient in OIL, so even trouble in the Gulf OIL States can be handled by them, but not Europe.

Iraq, Lebanon, Egypt, Tunisia, Libya, Sudan, Mali, Yemen all have major civil strife and the stirrings of unrest among opposition groups in Iran

Civil strife already in Pakistan, between radicals in the North and the rest of the Country, even unrest in Muslim areas of India. Afghanistan will erupt just like Iraq did when 'The West' pulled it's troops out. More trouble in Muslim areas in the Far East.

Israel as usual is already taking action in Syria, Lebanon, Gaza, the West Bank and the NE of the Egyptian Sinai.

Democracy the West has said should be 'consensual/Conciliatory' , thats what was wrong with the Muslim Brotherhoods reign in Egypt, after they won the Election, so they have not called the Military re-takeover of Power as a Coup. Funny I don't remember any consensus under Reagan, G Bush or Maggie Thatcher, all 3 imposed their Ideology on the populace, and trampled opposition underfoot, but it wasn't 'right' when the MB tried to impose that in Egypt.

 Funny how Syrian children seem to need protecting, by the same country thats blowing up children in Afghanistan, Yemen & Pakistan with drones. The same Country, that is, at this moment  complaining about Russian & Chinese vetoes in the Security council, but has never allowed (by using it's veto at least 41 times) any Security council action or condemnation of any thing done by Israel against numerous countries and peoples including inside Israel. Not even their use of the chemical agent White Phosphorus on numerous occasions in civilian areas.

 Even tactical strikes could cause more trouble than it stops, cripple the Syrian Military and the chances of an all out Civil War is more likely. That WILL spill into the Lebanon and maybe Jordan. More trouble likely in the Kurdish areas in the North, that may go into Iran, Iraq and even Turkey.

[tommy.irene]

Adam Holloway, a Tory MP who served with the Army in the first Gulf War, warned: ‘Reaction to horror is not a strategy. I would be completely up for a military attack if we could predict what the end state would be.

‘If we knew that a limited strike of the kind that’s being described here was going to bring people to the negotiating table, I’d be completely up for it. But I don’t know what the end state to this reaction is and, apart from remaining with our dear friends the Americans, I don’t know what the UK national security interest is.’

Mr Holloway predicted MPs would vote against a military strike, saying ‘Chucking cruise missiles in there is arming rebels with bells on, really’.......... He warned that the city of Aleppo was now in the control of Al Qaeda....

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2403514/Cameron-vows-respect-result-vote-strike-Syria.html#i... 

[al**bear]

Why NO coverage of this story in UK press ??

-------------------------------------------

Testimony from victims now strongly suggests it was THE REBELS, not the Syrian  government, that used Sarin Nerve Gas during a recent incident in the revolution-wracked nation, a senior UN diplomat said Monday.

Carla del Ponte, a member of the UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry on Syria, told Swiss TV there were “strong, concrete  suspicions but not yet incontrovertible proof,” that rebels seeking to oust  Syrian President Bashar al-Assad had used  the nerve agent.

http://www.livetradingnews.com/un-official-syrian-rebels-used-sarin-nerve-gas-assads-army-6636.htm

[tommy.irene]

---

@al**bear wrote:

Why NO coverage of this story in UK press ??

-------------------------------------------

Testimony from victims now strongly suggests it was THE REBELS, not the Syrian  government, that used Sarin Nerve Gas during a recent incident in the revolution-wracked nation, a senior UN diplomat said Monday.

Carla del Ponte, a member of the UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry on Syria, told Swiss TV there were “strong, concrete  suspicions but not yet incontrovertible proof,” that rebels seeking to oust  Syrian President Bashar al-Assad had used  the nerve agent.

http://www.livetradingnews.com/un-official-syrian-rebels-used-sarin-nerve-gas-assads-army-6636.htm

---

Because the PM wants a WAR

[cee-dee]

Might be because she's a Maverick or loose cannon?

[tommy.irene]

U.S. spies certain Assad used nerve gas 'after intercepting phone call from panicking Syrian defence chief demanding an explanation from its chemical weapon military unit'

• Syrian MoD 'exchanged phone calls with leader of chemical weapons unit'
• U.S spies allegedly overheard the phone call demanding an explantion 
  
• Israelis line up at gas-mask distribution in case of possible Syrian attack 
  
• Israeli TV station accused Maher al-Assad of being behind deadly attack
• Syria has denied using stocks of sarin to shell the area
• Syria's deputy foreign minister: US, Britain and France helped 'terrorists' use chemical weapons in Syria

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2403778/Syria-crisis-U-S-spies-certain-Assad-used-nerve-gas-... 
WHO DO WE BELIEVE..

[merehazle]

No we don't.

Democracy UK style. Immigration, the EU, HS2, wars in the middle east. Do any of them actually listen to what the people of this country want or do we just turn out every five years to vote in another bunch of liars and crooks who ignore our wishes?

Britain is no longer a ''world power'' and, according to the polls in several UK newspapers, SEVENTY FIVE PERCENT of British people are against this. Camoron, Vague and the little LibDem one should be held to account if there is any British loss of life.

Would these so-called leaders be so eager had they like in times long gone to lead the battle?  (I can see CAMY up front and shouting charge!).

This civil war is nothing to do with the United Kingdom. It is a civil war between different sects within sovereign state.

We still seem to think we have the role of ''World Police'' There is no such role!  It has long since been that we should stop sticking our noses in.   And let others who are ''World Powers'' deal with it. 

[tommy.irene]

Well said ..but the UK has to follow the USA like a lapdog..

[tommy.irene]

China: Its top newspaper said the United States and its allies were seeking to use the issue of chemical weapons to pursue regime change in Syria illegally and fan an already ugly and difficult conflict.

Russia: - Russia evacuated dozens of its citizens from Syria as the country's foreign minister warns that a military intervention by the U.S. and its allies would destabilize the region. 

Iran: Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said on U.S. intervention in Syria would be 'a disaster for the region', the ISNA state news agency reported.

Israel: Government has ordered a 'limited' call-up of reserve troops in anticipation of a possible attack by Syria. 

Iraq: Put its security forces on high alert ahead of an expected international strike on Syria, said Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki.

[tommy.irene]

You want SEE in VIDEO who was responsible for the chemical attack. Type in: US Contractors Cited for Syrian Chem Attacks (video)