A reasonable proposition/attack on the vulnerable.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31464897

 

 

David Cameron has commissioned a health adviser to review whether people with obesity, alcohol or drug problems should have benefits cut if they refuse treatment to make them fit for work.

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Re: A reasonable proposition/attack on the vulnerable.

I assume papko has been hacked by tory headquarters...I now do not understand (or want to) any of your views on people treatment.

 

Mr Cam says 'we must rid our something for nothing society) well I sincerely hope so as his crew will be first out of pocket then followed by the royals the bankers ,hedge fund ,inherited wealth,energy market and all profits made by anyone. Great :).......or do you mean the less fortunate or is the word deserving in the mindset of loolooabloo

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Re: A reasonable proposition/attack on the vulnerable.

you also did not answer the question...what do the people employed to get people employed do when they get everyone in work ? they are paid and funded by the beloved tax pot ...aaaannnnnd  whats your thoughts on 10,600 (its in 2 and a half yrs not 4 as I thought) dead people ?

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Re: A reasonable proposition/attack on the vulnerable.

you also did not answer the question...what do the people employed to get people employed do when they get everyone in work ? they are paid and funded by the beloved tax pot

 

 

 

 

 thats a difficult one , what about the people who worked down the pit for generations , and the pit closed , , what did they do ?

 

 they moved to a different area and sought employment as something else 

 

 Same as the builders who worked building the local hospital , when it was finished , the Hospital did not emply all th ebuilders to lounge around , as the Hopsital was built and they had no work , so they MOVED ON .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...aaaannnnnd whats your thoughts on 10,600 (its in 2 and a half yrs not 4 as I thought) dead people ?

 

 

 

 

 I dont understand this ,. you are saying that 10k people have died in 2 and half years , ?

 

 Alocs Druggies and people with depressive tendencies , have died ?

 

 

 Do thier lifestyle choices suggest a long and happy life ?

 

 How many of them would have died in any case ?

 

 

 in the Uk with pop 65 million , approx 800 k die every year 

 

 

 its what happens , people are born and then they die , they dont live for ever .

 

 

 

 

I been 12 years on ebay and had 1000's of sales and I trust people more than ever now
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Re: A reasonable proposition/attack on the vulnerable.

Thanks for your thoughts on that ,it is quite easy to understand they were happy and alive and now they are dead.....if you think the statistic is about people who die in general then no point explaining.

 

''Move on''....hmmm well I suppose they would if they were your normal working dow pit joe (or die to make room for your good self and co)......but these tax pot  relievers will  not lose their pensions or jobs (its a glorious world) and therefore have to stay in their sector, so they will have to move on to doing what ? that is my question....what do you suppose they will do now they are paid from all the working folks tax with no non working folk to give them happiness in job fullfilment.

 

 ..so what are they going to do for the money they take ?

 

Its a question.

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Re: A reasonable proposition/attack on the vulnerable.

Papko

 

How can someone from outside the SE, who is unemployed. Move there to take up the new Jobs, that have been created, because that is the only place where Jobs have been created. Greater Londons population has jumped up by well over a million. The Capital can't house the People they have, right now. So where are they, going to house the say 4 million extra people, who would have to head South, for jobs. (2 adults & 2 kids)

 

They have no chance in hell of buying and certainly can't afford to rent in the Capital, Just think of the rise in Housing benefit costs, if rented accommodation were available. Then think of the extra cost of 'in Work' benefits, because they are paid at a higher in London when they did find a Job.

 

 

btw most Miners didn't move, they stayed where they were and took up poorly paid work (supplemented by 'in work' benefits) and their wifes took up p/t Jobs. meaning less Jobs for the unskilled & Young. Foodbank use is endemic in old mining areas.

 

Remember the MAJORITY of benefits go to People IN WORK & Pensioners

 

Until we pay real Living wages, the Benefit bill will RISE, no matter what you do to the Unemployed/sick/disabled

 

 

Add to the above 2 whole Generations of unemployed Youngsters, continually hidden from the jobless figures, by being forced into meaningless 'work training' schemes. These count as employment under IDSs gerrymandering of the figures of who 'is in work'. They also use a similar schemes for Longterm unemployed adults, meaningless schemes, that count as being 'in work'.

 

LIES, DAMB LIES & TORY EMPLOYMENT STATISTICS

 

btw Papko,

I was going to ask you, in my last post -

 

Whats next, Transportation ?

 

 

 

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Re: A reasonable proposition/attack on the vulnerable.

The much vaunted 'Work training schemes'

 

Sitting in a class, filling in Job enquiries/applications, by mail & email, writing endless CVs, for the most part.

 

Companies now know, the email addresses of the Government and private 'work training' schemes -

So the endless streams of Job enquires/applications, many many 100s a month from them go straight into the Junk folder, unopened

 

They also know the type of envelopes and printing styles of the address labels, that flood from these schemes as well. Straight into the waste bin, unopened.

This must cost the public purse a fortune, if only because of the cost of envelopes/paper & postage.

 

Small businesses complain about the cost to them, in time and effort of getting these, after popping up on one of their lists, if you get on one, you soon appear on all of them in your area.

 

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Re: A reasonable proposition/attack on the vulnerable.

I take the happy and alive bit back,as you were right I suppose in saying they were pretty ill in the first place,like the guy who recently burned himself alive in his car after being harassed for money...so my post should have read ..unhappy and alive being helped to now dead.

I see what you mean now ...being helped...that is your problem,you don't like people who need help ,you like self sufficient...so you for example would not like a man bullied all his life from go to trying to commit suicide and that is tying up nursing staff,quacks etc

 

Person that makes own lot in life through thick or thin is ok. I will assume you don't include law breakers in that .

 

Ok rephrased question for you...what are all the professionals in the helping people sector going to move on to or...

 

What is your master plan than creates work for everyone that does not involve anyone ,what work are we all doing on planet papko and how does that keep all fit healthy,fed ready and able .?

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It seems everything the political engine has a hand in costs trillions to the 'ordinary folk' doesn't it Al ...Don't get me wrong I think some ideas all govs have had are pretty good ideas,but why do they mean the next 10 generations have to pay off the debt caused by a good idea...when lol they are only 5 yr termers ...

 

why are people so blind to see any policy that mentions 2020 in a plan cannot possibly be a democratic plan as they may be voted out and new Gov and people don't like the plan anymore as ''IT COSTS TRILLIONS''  haha 

 

I have either been hit on the head and can't stop asking ridiculous questions about a conspiracy flaw or I am the stupidest person alive ..hence ...........:)

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Re: A reasonable proposition/attack on the vulnerable.

 

 

 Dont know how much is needed to pay a living wage ?

 

 £15 an hour ?

 

 I like the idea , one high minimum wage , (coupled with benefits slashed even further , a real carrot and stick ) 

 

 

 trouble with that is the British working class cant compete at the moment with the Poles , so all the good jobs would go to the Poles

 

 

 

 

 

Workers are workers , if you get laid off , a worker gets another job , a waster , takes the easy route , and gets the benefits system to pay his way

 

 You cant change people now , least of all them that have taken the "handout " and liked it .

 

 

 

 

 as to "foodbanks " etc , You dont get them in Scotland , we do thinsg differntly here , Even if a Scot has not worked for 30 years , he will have  alarge back garden or allotlemtn , packed full of veg

 

 Turnips , Cabbage , Tatties , etc , all the basics

 

 

 look anywhere you like in Scotland , and the gardens are overflowing .

 

 

 Why would you go to a Foobank for a tin of beans ? 

I been 12 years on ebay and had 1000's of sales and I trust people more than ever now
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Just do what people do the world ove r, in Nigeria , India , China , and Russia 

 

 Its not written in stone , that we should be looked after from cradle to grave 

 

 its a relatively recent development , brought in by well meaning folk after the War 

 

 

 There will never be full employment again , how do they manage over the whole rest of the world ?

 

 just get on with it ?

 

 

I been 12 years on ebay and had 1000's of sales and I trust people more than ever now
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Re: A reasonable proposition/attack on the vulnerable.

I think high minimum wage that covers lifes essentials is a good idea,add to very low (not massive profit) energy and oil prices and that could work fine...add in a dollop of work for anyone and everyone and capped top earning of a million per person (they can then live off the interest and take or leave the work game) and you may be onto something.

 

Garden food growing is also very good idea if you are able to defend that food from all and sundry (laws say you cannot at the mo...might hurt the tinkers. 

 

Yep I will have a go in papko planet.

But one more thing needs addressing first.......do ill people get left for dead here ? or do we help them.

 

Do fat people become game to cull ?  Do the ones not working have a green light to steal or kill to get the job to survive (you know the don't fit inners) in the world of non full employment grow your own get on with it.?

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Re: A reasonable proposition/attack on the vulnerable.

Yep I will have a go in papko planet. But one more thing needs addressing first.......do ill people get left for dead here ? or do we help them.

 

 

 

 

off course we help sick people , and treat them in our hopsitals genuinely sick though if you gota "bad back " , or "depresion " , its off to the fields with you , or the refuse dumps , picking through the rubbish , and recycling I was watching a program on it in Nigeria , and all the poor , worked together in a cooperative , and recycled the rubbish together , they then sold the recycled goods to traders , and thye split the profits

 

Its a far nobler way to earn a living , for you are not a burden on the state , you have consciously decided to do your bit and cover your own costs

 

All druggies , Alcos , , mental health problems , could work their and just get by fine , afterall other countries have the same problems as us , it seems only in Britian . that being useless and designed to fail , gets you a regular weekly payment , your rent paid , and your heating to boot what is the incentive to work , if you get so much for being a slob .?

 

 

On Planet Papko , we know how to deal with malingerers

I been 12 years on ebay and had 1000's of sales and I trust people more than ever now
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I see ,so depression and a bad backs and mental illness go to the rubbish dump (not here of course as they have laws and rules about taking from dumps also what you dump) but off to nigeria with them.

 

The reason Britain is the only country that helps all, is why all come here and it doesn't cost you a single penny ,not a one ..you know why...its not your money. If Britain was to become more like Nigeria or China Or Russia even then rubbish dumps to forage a living will be a great addition....There are a lot of humans here though and they are well known in the world even today for their bravery and kindness towards others,and thankfully they will still fight whatever evil is necessary to stop the weaker of the race being dumped.

 

As far as I can see you have some good points and as near as I can see ,you need to read your own posts and question why you think Nigeria is a better place on earth than UK as all I see is venom towards weaker.

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Re: A reasonable proposition/attack on the vulnerable.

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Re: A reasonable proposition/attack on the vulnerable.

 as to "foodbanks " etc , You dont get them in Scotland , we do thinsg differntly here , Even if a Scot has not worked for 30 years , he will have  alarge back garden or allotlemtn , packed full of veg

 

Would that include the people living here in Edinburgh and other places like it?

 

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Parents of young, organic life forms are warned that towels can be harmful if swallowed in large quantities.
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Re: A reasonable proposition/attack on the vulnerable.

 photo laugh_zps41ce389b.png

 

Papko has already admitted to living on another planet. It's patently obvious it's not this one.

Mister EMB






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Re: A reasonable proposition/attack on the vulnerable.

The problem with threads like this is that both sides of the argument concentrate on the extremes, yet it is not the extremes that are the problem, they are so relatively small in number that special measures can be taken for them.

 

The real problem and expense lies in the middle where the vast majority of us reside - the middle ground which politicians and activists always seem to ignore.  Of course both sides will always fallaciously declare that the extremes are the majority just to suit their argument.

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Re: A reasonable proposition/attack on the vulnerable.

The real problem,  is that no-one dare protest against what's happening to our country, for fear of being called a "racist".

 

Everyone knows that.  But we're not supposed to say it.

 

So, instead, won't the thread continue -  with the usual evasive flim-flammery?

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Re: A reasonable proposition/attack on the vulnerable.

Heres an interesting post from a senior housing officer concerning the many feckless scroungers taking our hard earned money,(no,not the bankers or tax dodgers but the REAL scroungers)

 

http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/home/blogs/cathy-champion-scrounger/7008378.article

 





We are many,They are few
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Re: A reasonable proposition/attack on the vulnerable.

  Inside Housing’s anonymous columnist is a senior housing officer  

 

Cathy: champion scrounger

 

As I age, aside from growing grumpier, I am increasingly incredulous at the simplistic solutions touted by politicians and pundits to complex social problems.

To judge from most of our media - both print and broadcast - we are a nation of scroungers; lazy, feckless idlers out for something for nothing. No, I’m not talking about bankers. I mean people who get assistance from the state. Any reality TV show producer will tell you that. And producers are clever folk, or so they tend to believe.

Occasionally though, the real world can be glimpsed behind the media curtain. In January, Inside Housing ran an online story reporting the findings of a survey by the Methodist Church that a hundred people a day with mental health problems are getting their benefits sanctioned by the Department for Work and Pensions.

Housing professionals were shocked but not surprised, while media pundits with heads stuck fast in the ideological sand were full of spurious justifications. Meanwhile, the politicians, who have the power to sort this problem out, carried on oblivious.

It left me wondering how it is possible, in our society at this time, to get the message to the public that some people really are suffering? No TV producer in Britain today would be able to sell the idea of Cathy Come Home to a commissioning editor. Cathy Champion Scrounger would do the trick, though

 

Broken system

In my own small way, I try to shed a little light by telling friends and acquaintances the real-life stories of people who have fallen foul of the system.

Like Jenny, second-generation British but with a Polish name, whose income support was stopped because some bureaucrat thought that they’d better do some extra checks given that she had a foreign surname.

They sent her a letter, but Jenny is a vulnerable young woman who fears authority and is borderline learning disabled. The letter sat in her flat unopened until the day she turned up in tears to tell our support workers that her benefits had been cut off. Guilty until proven innocent.

And, of course, because she had lost her income support, someone in my own council decided that she must be working again and therefore not entitled to housing benefit.

It all took weeks to fix and now Jenny has arrears that she was neither responsible for, nor has any chance of paying off. Meanwhile, the benefits machine churns inexorably on, blindly crushing other Jennys unlucky enough to get in its way.

Then there are those fitness for work tests. ATOS took a lot of the blame as the organisation seemingly switching off benefit entitlements on a whim. But the reality is that whatever company assesses claimants, they will have targets to meet and they will employ people without scruples to do the government’s dirty work.

Take Susie, a 23-year-old with autism and schizophrenia. She has the bad luck to sound articulate and presents as if she is in control of her life, though any of her support workers would tell you she is an accident waiting to happen.

She is in expensive, supported accommodation and was gradually learning the skills necessary to live independently, though she will never be fit for work.

However, that wasn’t the view of the employability assessors. Susie was told she would have to come off benefits and get a job. Potentially, her pricey supported accommodation would have to go, as well.

Unsurprisingly, the pressure tipped her over the edge. She spent six months as an in-patient in a local psychiatric hospital and is now permanently on medication. She isn’t half the person she used to be. All the effort put in by the support workers is like a sandcastle on the beach: washed away by a crashing wave.

Complex problem

It isn’t only people with mental health issues or learning disabilities who are at risk; the system will crush anyone who doesn’t understand its labyrinthine complexities. How many young people, first time on the dole, are aware of how easy it is to be sanctioned?

I know plenty who struggle to manage their chaotic lives and have become victims of this heartless process.

You could say, ‘Well that’ll learn ‘em.’ In some cases, you might even be right. But it isn’t just the lack of sympathy for those with mental health problems that concerns me. It is that, for a significant number of fit people, we are actually creating psychological problems.

A ‘serves them right’ attitude underpins this. These are the hallmarks of a society without pity and without understanding. Our society. Has this state-sponsored cruelty brought down the benefits bill? Not so far as I am aware.

What it has done is spread fear and misery. I believe our social security system alienates people and I suspect it encourages crime, too. No doubt academic research is going on into the impact of these benighted policies already.

The results of that research will of course be ignored by politicians more interested in playing to populist prejudices whipped up by the media.  Meanwhile, housing officers, support staff, social workers and policemen will have to handle the fallout. We try to pick up the pieces, negotiate with the bureaucrats and put lives back on track.

What frustrates me most though, and makes this tetchy old housing officer much more than merely grumpy, is that there appears to be nothing any of us can do about it.

 

 

(I copied it to save people registering )

 

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