Suspicious about buyer...

[sirtopper]

Hello Chaps,

I've been selling bits on ebay for years now, but this is the first time I've sold a high value item and seen red flags.

Just listed a bike (I'd put in the listing for the buyer to contact me before buying, as I would need to arrange for pickup/delivery).

Someone just bought the item without first messaging myself, only has 13 feedback and has noted on their PayPal purchase that they'd be 'happy to pay in cash' with Paypal noting 'This payment is in your on-hold balance'. So that's ominous... New one on me.

So in theory I guess they could take the bike without PayPal having passed over the funds to myself?

I'm probably just suspicious of an innocent new ebayer, but it just struck me as... odd

If I were to proceed via PayPal - What's the best way to prove that they took receipt of the goods?

...And if I cancelled the order, would I incur fees/bad feedback because of that?

Thanks for the help!

Tom

[plpmr]

adding to the advice already given -

"Just listed a bike (I'd put in the listing for the buyer to contact me before buying, as I would need to arrange for pickup/delivery)."

It's a serious violation of eBay rules to exchange details before buying - a buyer must buy first.

[john1297576]

"has noted on their PayPal purchase that they'd be 'happy to pay in cash' with Paypal noting 'This payment is in your on-hold balance'."    and that comment in itself is of concern.

Buyer would not know for sure that a paypal payments was on hold. 

However if it is you can still see it in paypal it is just not included in available balance. The idea being that you have been paid but cannot withdraw the money.

The only way really to protect yourself would ideally be by using tracked delivery, it is a shame that buyer refers to paying in cash as though paying by paypal is cash. It isn't and is very unsafe as without tracked delivery, buyer can start a not received case to get a full refund.

Only measures you can take with no guarantee of success, would be to have at least one other "witness" with you when collected. Take a photograph of buyer collecting, get buyer to sign for the cycle and take a note of Vehicle make and Registration Number.

An honest buyer might think this is OTT , a dishonest buyer might be detered from trying a fraud.

Cancelling - Unless done with the buyers approval you would not get the selling fee refunded and likely to get Negative Feedback and a Defect.

[sirtopper]

"Buyer can start a not received case to get a full refund" - That's what concerns me. Thanks for the reply John.

Having a quick look on here, it seems that if the (seller) isn't happy about proceeding - The best way might be to 'refund' the paypal payment and then cancel order as the buyer 'changed their mind' (which I can seemingly do myself, or ideally ask the buyer to do themselves when they call me) - Therefore stopping any fees or 'defects'?

[fargvs]

On collection or seller delivered items; although you cannot refuse PayPal if buyer insists (except for vehicles), always try your best to get Cash on collection/delivery = No 21 day payment holds /PP fees/ Chargebacks / or later claims for damage/not received etc.>

An eBay or PayPal 21 day payment hold is now standard procedure for New, Occasional and Returning sellers and without tracked delivery confirmation, (which you won't have) you may need to wait for the complete 21 days ...

Buyers cannot be expected to wait until your funds are released ... with PayPal payments > always log into your PayPal account to check for payment status and messages eg. Paid/Pending/Held/OK safe to send etc. to the address given there  ... see options here >

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/default/default/payment-holds-sold-items?id=4155

[rusticrye]

All new and infrequent sellers are subject to PayPal's 21-day payment hold. It's a security measure to protect both parties (from account hackers and other fraudsters). You can read all about it in Ebay's Seller Centre (link at foot of any page) or in PayPal's Help pages.

No idea why this buyer paid with PayPal and added a note to the payment saying he's perfectly happy to pay in cash...!?! Lockdown seems to have caused brain-death in large numbers of the population. In the last few months. I've seen massively increased (and admitted) stupidity on these Help forums like you wouldn't believe.

You can certainly cancel the Ebay transaction ('buyer requested') which will auto-refund the buyer and credit the selling fee back to your Ebay account, but you'll be stuck with the PayPal payment processing fee (PayPal no longer refunds any part of that fee). You'll then be free to relist so that the buyer can buy again (buy, but not pay until he's fully examined the bike and is happy with it before handing over cash). Your only other option is to hand the bike over to the buyer and wait the full 21 days for PayPal to release the payment to you. It won't be released any sooner, as the only way to get that actioned is with tracking proving delivery.

In future, list for cash on collection only, and preferably on Gumtree, Ebay's sister site.  You unfortunately can't stop buyers paying with PayPal for collection items on Ebay, and PayPal is not safe for these (see * below). Plus, as I said above, you're stuck with the PayPal payment processing fee if you have to refund a buyer's payment. Which happens often as many buyers fail to read, are expecting the item to be shipped, and live hundreds of miles away and therefore can't collect. But the choice is yours, of course.

* PayPal is totally unsafe for sellers of collection items, as they have no way at all of fighting an Unauthorised Account Use claim (lodged when someone claims their account has been hacked or otherwise fraudulently used). The ONLY thing PayPal, or any payment processor, will accept from you for such a claim is a Proof of Posting receipt, which you obviously won't have. Signed invoices etc aren't accepted, as they are too easily forged. You would lose the item, your money, and be charged a hefty admin fee into the bargain.

@sirtopper 

[sirtopper]

@rusticrye - Exactly the helpful type of answer I was after, so thanks for that.

If the buyer cancelled the order at their end 'Ordered by Mistake' - Would *they* then be charged PayPal or ebay fees? I assume as it's an online purchase and within 14days, that would incur no fees as they're entitled to full refund under distance selling rules (or whatever it's called now)...

Useful tips for future sales though. 'Every day's a learning day' 🙂

Tom

[rusticrye]

Glad to be of help. 🙂

Buyers can't cancel orders, Tom - they can only request cancellation. The seller has to perform the actual cancellation.

Buyers can't be charged cancellation fees - as per UK consumer law, they're entitled to a full refund of the whole of their original payment. So wishful thinking, I'm afraid!

@sirtopper

[sirtopper]

Ah right, yes. My bad phrasing .

So yeah - If they 'Request a return' (in ebay terminology) - and the customer was obliging... That'd be the best way to satisfy both parties 🙂

Tom