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Community Newcomer
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎30-03-2007

Third party financial claim is it legal

I sold an item and the buyer wanted the item sent to Argos.

 

The item was not collected by the buyer so Argos made a claim via paypal to refund the buyer.

 

The buyer knew nothing about the claim and has asked me to post the item to his home address when i finally get it back.

 

Is it legal for a third party (Argos) to claim money from my bank account when they played no part in the transaction, they are after all just a delivery address.

 

If the item now goes missing during the return who do i blame as the buyer knows nothing about Argos returning it to me or the financial claim they have made on his behalf.

 

Community Member
Posts: 231
Registered: ‎06-05-2007

Re: Third party financial claim is it legal

in reply to pookhill1

Forgive my ignorance but how is it possible for Argos to make a PayPal claim? They don't have any details of the payment do they, it is not up to them to refund a buyer it's down to the seller. 

Totally confused, hope someone comes along soon and explains and advises you

Community Member
Posts: 6,938
Registered: ‎26-10-2005

Re: Third party financial claim is it legal

in reply to pookhill1

I thought the only people who could do this were the buyer with a paypal resolution case: or the real funding card holder (if stolen) via a chargeback: or paypal, spotting a fraudulent transaction.

 

It sounds very odd like some sort of attempted scam, is the buyer offering to repay before you send out the returned item, or are they just expecting you to send it to them even though you have had the payment taken back? I think I would assume the buyer does know all about it, it seems a lot more believable than argos doing it.

 

I'll ask the obvious, how were you notified of the paypal case, was it definitely genuine and can you see the money on hold in your paypal account?

 

 

Community Newcomer
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎30-03-2007

Re: Third party financial claim is it legal

in reply to angrydrag0n

I also thought it was only the buyer who could make a claim but they assure me they have not and the claim was generated by Argos when the item was returned. I still don't have it.

 

The money in my paypal account is on hold and i have contacted the buyer who tells me he has not made a claim although he did not collect the item from Argos because he was called away for two weeks on business.

 

The buyer seems very genuine with a perfect buying history and knows nothing about the claim.

 

Does anyone know what the rules are regarding Argos, all i have managed to find out is that they keep an item for 7 days and then send it back. The phone call to ebay confirmed that the buyer had not made a claim and that it was third party generated.

 

Surely that can't be allowed as my contract is with the buyer not the posting address Argos.

Community Member
Posts: 11,958
Registered: ‎22-10-2007

Re: Third party financial claim is it legal

in reply to pookhill1

This is from the Click and Collect T&Cs

 

 

  • If the buyer fails to collect the goods within 7 working days of being notified that it is ready for collection the contract between you and the buyer shall be treated as cancelled by the buyer.
  • The item will be returned to you by Royal Mail tracked 48 hour service provided the item has been delivered with a legible UID.
  • Once you have received the returned item, you shall refund the buyer within 6 days.

http://sellercentre.ebay.co.uk/terms/click-collect-argos

 

I can only surmise that in anticipation of the need for a refund, Paypal have simply frozen the buyer's payment in anticipation of the need to refund after receiving the information about the non collection from Argos. No actual claim as such having been made.

 

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It is futile to teach a caveman to play Scrabble, the only word they know is 'eerrrk' and they can't spell it.
Community Newcomer
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎22-03-2017

Re: Third party financial claim is it legal

in reply to bankhaunter

It would be nice if someone from ebay would clear this up.

 

There has been a claim made and the payment has been frozen in limbo.

 

The buyer was not even aware untill i messaged him that there was a claim.

 

This whole process of freezing the payment has been instigated by a third party who should really have no right to interfere with anyones financial contract, after all Argos are just a delivery address.

 

While i take the point you make about paypal the fact remains that they should have no idea on parcel collection unless told by Argos.

 

The claim and frozen payment must have been initiated by Argos, it's like a post office box getting involved in a personal transaction between two people.

 

If the buyer fails to collect it then thats fine but what does that have to do with them.

Community Member
Posts: 914
Registered: ‎27-09-2010

Re: Third party financial claim is it legal

in reply to littlegem2005

Argos will have entered the uncollected item into their system as "being returned" which will automatically mean that Paypal then put the funds on hold.

 

So no, Argos aren't making a claim on the money, it will go back to the buyer, not argos

 

Argos can't open a claim, they can merely let paypal know that the item is being returned to sender, that the contract is therefore cancelled, and that the buyer will receive a full refund.

 

 

The buyer hasn't made a claim either

 

It's just an automated system that keeps track of the parcel until collected by the buyer or returned to sender

 

Paypal do have a right to put a hold on the money, as this is part of the terms and conditions (shown above) that you agreed to when you signed up to use Click and Collect

Community Member
Posts: 1,619
Registered: ‎01-07-2006

Re: Third party financial claim is it legal

in reply to bankhaunter

Bank ,

 

I would have thought that the Consumer Contracts Regulations would apply here , so the buyer has 14 days to cancel .

 

So Argos cannot assume that the buyer wants to cancel until 14 days has elapsed .

 

What they are doing is probably unlawful and also Contractual Interference .

eBay Employee
Posts: 627
Registered: ‎21-06-2016

Re: Third party financial claim is it legal

in reply to pookhill1

pookhill1 wrote:

I sold an item and the buyer wanted the item sent to Argos.

 

The item was not collected by the buyer so Argos made a claim via paypal to refund the buyer.

 

The buyer knew nothing about the claim and has asked me to post the item to his home address when i finally get it back.

 

Is it legal for a third party (Argos) to claim money from my bank account when they played no part in the transaction, they are after all just a delivery address.

 

If the item now goes missing during the return who do i blame as the buyer knows nothing about Argos returning it to me or the financial claim they have made on his behalf.

 


Hi @pookhill1

 

I am a bit unsure about what has happened, I am happy to highlight with the team but just want to confirm some information.

 

When you say Argos have opened a claim, can you view this on the transaction in PayPal? Can you log into PayPal to see what it states on the funds?

 

As far as I know only a buyer or seller of the transaction can open a case (I will double check this though in the case for click and collect transactions)

 

Thanks,

Sarah



Community Member
Posts: 8,078
Registered: ‎10-04-2009

Re: Third party financial claim is it legal

in reply to pookhill1

What strikes me here is if they want the item - as they seem to - why didn't they collect it for m Argos?

 

Seven days seems ample time and you do say they asked for it to be sent there (was it actually there waiting for that amount of time?)

 

Post 7 seems to be the most likely answer.

Community Member
Posts: 11,958
Registered: ‎22-10-2007

Re: Third party financial claim is it legal

in reply to i_failed_my_dna_test

So Argos cannot assume that the buyer wants to cancel until 14 days has elapsed .

 

They won't have done as such, only informed Paypal that collection has not been made in the seven days allowed.

 

It's really little different than a seller sending goods to a buyer, the buyer not being at home and the goods being returned to the seller.

 

As for contractual obligations, that is a bit more complicated.  As far as I can see, the requirement to collect the goods in the time allotted would be a term of the contract, so a failure to collect could be a breach by the buyer. It could be that such a breach brings the contract to an end if it could be said that was a term of the contract, the T&Cs do state the buyer will be refunded. 

I would look to a judge to decide that one. Smiley Happy

As in this instance, the buyer does have the opportunity to inform the seller they still want the goods, though it may mean being refunded and repaying.

 

I don't think the CCRs play a part as such, they don't cover the eventuality of a buyer not accepting delivery of the goods.  With most online sellers where goods are returned undelivered, the goods would still belong to the buyer and the seller could look to payment for a redelivery and possibly storage or the buyer could cancel the contract.

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It is futile to teach a caveman to play Scrabble, the only word they know is 'eerrrk' and they can't spell it.
Community Member
Posts: 11,958
Registered: ‎22-10-2007

Re: Third party financial claim is it legal

in reply to daggorx

Apparently the buyer was called away on business.

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It is futile to teach a caveman to play Scrabble, the only word they know is 'eerrrk' and they can't spell it.
Community Member
Posts: 6,938
Registered: ‎26-10-2005

Re: Third party financial claim is it legal

in reply to pookhill1

A note on the buyers perfect history: A buyer who doesn't sell can only ever  have 100%. Looking at their feedback left can give a clue if there are signs of regular issues.

 

Sellers cannot leave anything but positive for the buyer. So a sellers only choice within ebay t&c is to leave none. If they leave a negative comment on a positive feedback it's considered a policy breach, and if notified ebay will remove the comment leaving the green dot, and log it against the sellers account.

Community Newcomer
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎21-07-2011

Re: Third party financial claim is it legal

in reply to sarah_uk@ebay.com

Hi Sarah

 

Here is the message on my paypal account

 

The buyer opened a dispute on this transaction. Sign in to your eBay account for more information on how to resolve it.

 

The payment is on hold and i have not recieved the item back as of tonight.

 

The buyer insists he has not opened a case and therefore is unable to close it, he still wants the item and has asked me to send him a paypal invoice and post the item to his home address rather than Argos.

 

If you look into my messages you will see the conversation, at the moment i can't do anything as the item has still not been returned to me.

 

Thanks for looking into this problem, surely Argos can't freeze a payment on a transaction that has nothing to do with them. They are just a delivery address and if anything should have contacted the buyer to remind them to collect the item rather than the freeze the buyers payment.

 

 

Community Member
Posts: 7,095
Registered: ‎04-09-2011

Re: Third party financial claim is it legal

in reply to dapple_rose

So have you checked your eBay account for an open case?  

 

Just because the buyer said he hasn't opened a case, doesn't mean he didn't,  so either he did or it was as post 7 says and an auto generated case was opened with only a limited number of message options making it look as if the buyer did.

 

Argos have not opened a case or frozen the payment, they don't have that right. 

Community Member
Posts: 1,422
Registered: ‎18-02-2011

Re: Third party financial claim is it legal

in reply to pookhill1

Phone ebay customer service, find out exactly where the item and the money are.

 

If the buyer's been refunded, they can buy again in the normal way.  If not, then probably just wait a short time if you know it's in progress - if you send another then your buyer could end up with the item and a refund.

 

As said above, good feedback for a buyer means absolutely nothing these days - every buyer's perfect in today's world of lies!

Community Member
Posts: 11,958
Registered: ‎22-10-2007

Re: Third party financial claim is it legal

in reply to rightgrand

I would assume from the Click and Collect T&Cs that the process would be Argos informing Paypal of the non collection, Paypal freezing the payment, Argos sending the item back to the seller and giving Paypal the tracking information then Paypal refunding the buyer when the tracking info shows delivery.

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It is futile to teach a caveman to play Scrabble, the only word they know is 'eerrrk' and they can't spell it.