Includes a battery

[stevenwhiting]

So, with the new massively flawed Simple Delivery, I sent an item off today using that *bleep* system. Got to the Post Office and if I know the item has a battery in, before they even ask I tell them. They then put the battery sticker on.

Today however, when I warned her she said "You're supposed to declare that online if your doing the label online with the QR code". I said but its ebay new Simple Delivery and there is no option to state it has a battery. She also wasn't happy with their new system.

So as there are items that are prohibited to ship in the UK or require warnings, at what point of Simple Delivery do we get asked that? Or did I just not see it?

[thepillenwerfer]

It's odd how you get the third degree at Post Offices but when Royal Mail collect things they never ask, and don't have scales to check weights either.

[4_bathrooms]

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@stevenwhiting wrote:

 Got to the Post Office and if I know the item has a battery in, before they even ask I tell them. They then put the battery sticker on.

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As per eBay's restricted or prohibited items:

"Batteries, in particular lithium-ion (including those contained in electronic devices), which are damaged or recalled, or any type of used battery. However, functioning batteries may be sent providing they are properly installed within the devices they power and are secured to prevent movement during transit. See also Packaging Guidelines."

This mirrors Royal Mail's prohibited and restricted items list. If the battery is undamaged and installed within the device it is intended to power the only requirement* is the sender's name and address must be visible on the packaging. The battery sticker is only required if a battery is being sent in isolation or is not connected to the device it is intended to power (i.e. a spare battery sent with the item). 

[Edit] *Other than the stated weight, capacity and packaging requirements.

[stevenwhiting]

Yes, but you choose Simple Delivery and from what I can see, there is no option to state it has a battery or not. If you are just sending a battery outside of the device.

[4_bathrooms]

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@thepillenwerfer wrote:

It's odd how you get the third degree at Post Offices but when Royal Mail collect things they never ask, and don't have scales to check weights either.

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If package contains a loose lithium ion or lithium polymer battery that is not "contained in/connected to the device it is intended to power" then the item should only be sent at a Post Office counter as it requires a sticker.

If you are sending a mobile phone or a laptop (for example) with the (working) battery installed there is no requirement for the sticker so such items can be collected by the postie. 

[stevenwhiting]

I quite like our local Post Office. The women that run it are all nice, friendly and helpful. Especially when, last year, I gave the wrong addresses for two items I had in my hand. Walked round the corner and realised. I said as was my mistake I'll just pay again, she said no need, she'll just void them and reprint.

[4_bathrooms]

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@stevenwhiting wrote:

Yes, but you choose Simple Delivery and from what I can see, there is no option to state it has a battery or not. If you are just sending a battery outside of the device.

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There's no need for such an option. If the item is in a "battery" category Simple Delivery isn't available. To check I've just searched for "lithium battery pack" and "powerbank" with the search filter set to show only results from private sellers. None of the results I checked were available via Simple Delivery so eBay seem to have it (mostly) covered.

I suppose there will be exceptions - such as a laptop sent with a spare battery - but they're probably rare. In fact, I just searched for "laptop with spare battery" again with the filter set to show only results from private sellers. The first result I found is not being sent via Simple Delivery despite otherwise meeting SD's requirements so it seems eBay has this covered better than I expected.

[555njp]

Sending batteries (Lithium-Ion) contained within or sent with a device seems to be allowable subject to the carriers guidelines.

It is however still prohibited by most (RM, DPD, EVRI, UPS, etc…) to send a battery on its own within the UK Mail (stickered or otherwise) although I believe some large OEMs who have been trained in safe packing/handling may be permitted to post.

To do so legally requires pre-approval with the carrier and is most certainly not open to small businesses, resellers and definitely not private individuals.

Lithium batteries are classed as dangerous goods. Shipping or trying to ship these illegally can not only lead to the package being destroyed but the sender being prosecuted and the fines are ‘unlimited’!

So my question is: are sellers of these items just “chancing it” as there are literally thousands on offer on eBay, most being posted using the usual regular carriers/services which if correctly declared, would not accept carriage?
I even found some sellers selling batteries known to be faulty which is a definite no no.

I’ve tried sending batteries myself in the past and as soon as you mention lithium-ion battery you get the “this item is on our prohibited items list and cannot be carried”. RM, EVRI etc. definitely won’t touch them and all the main carriers make this very clear in their Ts & Cs.

The only way for a small business/individual to send these legally is via a specialist courier but they charge around £50/consignment making individual battery sales completely uneconomical.

Also, if a buyer wanted to return a battery, how on earth would they be able to do so (legally)?

[hail.caesar]

Slightly off-topic but related, what happens when simple delivery is used for items (restricted but not prohibited) that used to require an ID8000 label (eg. aerosols, perfume, nail polish, etc)? Are ID8000s no longer needed?

[555njp]

Supposed to still have the black & white label. Post Office take those no problem.

[hail.caesar]

Ok, thanks.

[4_bathrooms]

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@555njp wrote:

So my question is: are sellers of these items just “chancing it” as there are literally thousands on offer on eBay, most being posted using the usual regular carriers/services which if correctly declared, would not accept carriage?

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When you book carriage online either through Royal Mail, a courier's website, eBay or a parcel broker they don't specifically ask if you're sending a lithium battery - which would include most power banks - in isolation. They do ask the user to tick a box to confirm they have read the T&Cs and are not sending a prohibited item - 99.99% of people do not read the T&Cs nor the prohibited items list.

I would imagine most sellers sending lithium batteries in isolation are doing so either through ignorance or - as you put it - are chancing it.

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@555njp wrote:

I even found some sellers selling batteries known to be faulty which is a definite no no.

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A very definite no-no. A damaged lithium battery is classed as hazardous waste and can only be transported on a suitable vehicle displaying the necessary ADR warning signs. ADR warning signs are also required for most new, undamaged lithium batteries/cells being transported by road when they are being transported in isolation which is why they are prohibited by almost every carrier. Some carriers will carry new lithium batteries in isolation but only by prior agreement and the sender is required to follow very strict guidelines regarding packaging and labelling.

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@555njp wrote:

Also, if a buyer wanted to return a battery, how on earth would they be able to do so (legally)?

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They can't unless the seller has provided a means for them to do so.

[555njp]

I’d agree that many private sellers are probably ignorant of the rules or simple don’t care so are taking a calculated risk in selling say a power tool battery as a stand alone item.

However, my search of 18v Lithium batteries returned over 68,000 listings, many of which are online business sellers, blatantly flaunting the regs..!

The faulty battery seller is an established business using Royal Mail to send his faulty batteries (people buy them for the cases and put their own cells in).

Ebay probably should prohibit sales (or only allow collection) of anything that is prohibited for carriage, but then half the site would disappear and eBay would money.