Ebay screwed me

[lebrud-25]

Sold a Facom Digital Torque wrench as an action listing starting from 99p, the item sold for £196.

Sent this off via special delivery to the buyer and a couple of days later the buyer messages me stating that he was using the item for his project, but noticed the item didn't have a certain feature. I messaged back saying that this tool didn't have this feature and that he would need a different model.

He asked for a return under the policy that my item was not as listed. in my listing I had put full pictures of what the item was, along with pictures of the item part number, I did this so any buyer can see exactly what they are buying, but also look themselves to what the item offers direct from the manufacture.

Anyway before I sent a response to the buyer I contacted Ebay and spoke to an advisor, they told me "that they couldn't see an issue with my listing, as because I had a no returns on the listing they advised me to reject the claim for a return". This obviously caused the buyer to appeal! which Ebay sided with me and closed the case!

However a few weeks later I was emailed with a 'payment dispute' (PayPal) and this was sided with the buyer, I had been given no reason as to why the buyer won this and any kind of information as to how my listing was misleading. I contacted Ebay again and was told I wasn't able to appeal and the case was closed! Ok.

Having asked the Advisor about how I can obtain my item back? the reply was because I refused the return the buyer can keep the item along with the refund plus an additional fee of £14 (which the fee was eventually wavered).

Going back to the beginning then only reason I refused the return was, because Ebay advised me of this, and every step ive seemed the advice of Ebay. Ebay originally sided with me and closed the case in my favour! so why the change? Paypal! 

Ebay or Paypal still haven't explained what was wrong with my Ad? and im not able to fight this further.

my opinion is that. the buyer bought this for a project, used the item, then wanted to return after completing his project. the buyer saw the auction listing and did not ask as single question about any features that the tool had. they now have a free tool! and im stuck with the bill.

[papso22]

Payment disputes are a big risk for sellers particularly when they are for item not as described.   However ebay is supposed to provide seller protection if the buyer has had an ebay case decided in their favour for the exact same reason.

Your case is complicated though because eBay sided with you after the buyer appealed your rejection of the claim. 

One of the reasons for being complicated is that you shouldn't have had the option to refuse if the buyer opened a claim for not as described within the time limits allowed.  If they actually opened a change of mind return, which you could refuse,  and then did a not as described payment dispute, it's not the same reason and seller protection won't apply.

Similarly,  if they opened an ebay claim for not as described,  but late, you can refuse, but even if ebay upholds your decision to refuse, that's not because they agreed it was as described,  it was because there was no valid claim due to being late.

I think you have simply been a victim of the way payment disputes work since manged payments came in, and you are stuck with the outcome.

What is odd though is that with a PayPal payment dispute I thought the  buyer is supposed to return the item, have you checked that in the PayPal terms and conditions?

[lebrud-25]

I haven’t checked with PayPal terms and conditions, but even if that’s the
case how can I appeal this? I’ve been told no appeal is available and also
isn’t my issue with EBay and they are the provider, PayPal are just the
byproduct.

Extremely frustrating that under EBay advice is the sole reason why I’m in
this situation, going back I should have accepted the return and just pay
the refund, but why should I, I listed the item clearly. I don’t feel the
need to supply someone with a tool to use for a project and asking to
return once they have finished..

Is this not classed as theft?

[papso22]

You are right, ebay advised you to refuse, but that advice was obviously based on the circumstances at the time, which gave you that option.  You haven't said why you could refuse, I.e late claim or change of mind.

Whether ebay CS should then warn you about the possibility of a chargeback is another matter entirely.   

You are now left trying to recover your property from the  buyer. 

[lebrud-25]

I refused the return because the buyer had no grounds that my listing was
misleading, the buyer used the item for a project.

He did not report this upon delivery, and my listing was clear as no
returns.

Why should I pay for a tool for someone to use and then claim a refund. I’m
not a hire service.

Yes you’re right I am having to claim this independently from the buyer
‘which they are ignoring my requests’

However misleading council from eBay is also a factor here!

[papso22]

Even if a seller thinks a  buyer has no grounds for their claim, if the buyer opens a claim for item not as described within the allotted time, there is no option for the seller to refuse.

The only options are refund without return, or issue a paid for returns label. 

[lebrud-25]

Also if what you say is true. Under the first appeal via eBay, EBay should
have agreed with the buyer and not dismiss the case in my favour.

[papso22]

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@lebrud-25 wrote:
Also if what you say is true. Under the first appeal via eBay, EBay should
have agreed with the buyer and not dismiss the case in my favour.

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You are not reading what I am telling you.

A case for item not as described, opened in time, cannot be refused by the seller, so the buyer doesn't need to appeal.  There is nothing for ebay to adjudicate on.

Your buyer's case was either a change of mind, so your no returns policy applied, or was for item not as described but outside the 30 day window so you had the option to refuse.  If the buyer appealed that refusal ebay would have seen it was outside the 30 days and had no option but to agree with your refusal.  But that wasn't because they agreed it was as described. 

[lebrud-25]

So for future buyers.

You can rent tools for 30days “change your mind” but claim error in
listing. Get a refund, your project completed for free!

What about an explanation as to why the ad was misleading?

Look at my sellers feedback, I don’t lie on my listings.

[papso22]

Payment disputes have much longer time frames than ebay cases so they can 'rent' your item for much longer than 30 days.

[*vyolla*]

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@lebrud-25 wrote:
I haven’t checked with PayPal terms and conditions, but even if that’s the
case how can I appeal this? I’ve been told no appeal is available and also
isn’t my issue with EBay and they are the provider, PayPal are just the
byproduct.

---

This isn't actually anything to do with Paypal. The buyer paid with a debit or credit card via PayPal, they just process the payment, and then the buyer issued a not as described chargeback via their card provider. At this point, PayPal must reverse the payment. There is no appeal route here, the only chance you had of winning would have been as @papso22  has described - if the buyer had opened an eBay not as described claim which was found in your favour - if they subsequently still went ahead and issued a chargeback, eBay would have to pay for the refund and there'd be no £14 fee.

[papso22]

If the buyer paid with PayPal funds does that then mean that the normal PayPal buyer protection applies?

[*vyolla*]

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@papso22 wrote:

If the buyer paid with PayPal funds does that then mean that the normal PayPal buyer protection applies?

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Yes, but in this case the buyer must've funded the PayPal payment with a card if they managed to issue a chargeback that generated the £14 fee.