Question Re: Fraud :-( in Selling on eBay DND

Fraud :-(

*susiesue* — Sat, 11 Apr 2020 07:48:18 GMT

I sold an item via the global shipping programme

I had an email that the package was at the depot and would be forwarded on to the buyer

Couple of weeks later I had notification from PayPal that an unauthorised purchase case had been opened but that they knew that there was a tracking number and tht they needed no further action or information from me.

I then received a PayPal reminder that I needed to respond to the case so I sent them the eBay international ref number, and the eBay email that the item had been succesfully delivered to the buyer.

This morning PayPal informed me that they have refunded the buyer, and taken a charge back fee from me because I did not provide proof of postage!

Err hello? If there's proof of delivery surely that proves the item was posted?

So as it stands I've lost my item, I've lost my money, I've been a victim of fraud and theftb and I've had to pay for the priviledge!

I've reported the buyer to eBay, and I've emailed PayPal but I'm not expecting any joy from them 😞

Re: Fraud :-(

john1297576 — Sat, 11 Apr 2020 07:57:58 GMT

Did you at any time point out that this was through Global Shipping and that as far that was concerned it would be Global who could prove delivery to the correct address.

You must speak to Paypal as it sounds to me that they have not realised that it is through Global. You may still have to refund but as I understand it proof of delivery to the address provided should win the case. you delivered to Global, they delivered to the "buyer".

Re: Fraud :-(

*susiesue* — Sat, 11 Apr 2020 08:14:24 GMT

Thank you so much for your fast reply, PayPal said that they knew tracking was available and the delivery email from eBay that I forwarded to PayPal had the following sentence which I've copied and pasted... We are writing to confirm that your transaction through the Global Shipping Programme has been successfully delivered by the courier.
Yet the ''buyer'' was still refunded.
Apparently you can wait for hours to speak to PayPal so I emailed.

Re: Fraud :-(

rusticrye — Sat, 11 Apr 2020 10:40:55 GMT

This was not a non-delivery claim. It was an Unauthorised Account Use claim, made by the account holder, not the fraudster who made the purchase. These require proof of POSTING, not proof of delivery. That is what PayPal specifically requested from you. Proof of delivery proves nothing for such a claim, except that the item was delivered to whoever hacked the claimant's account, or otherwise fraudulently used it. PayPal (and all payment processors) must see proof that you posted it to the address on the PayPal confirmation email, which in this case was obviously the GSP hub. If you'd uploaded your POP to the case which proved that, it would have been closed in your favour. The account holder would them have been compensated by PayPal, or whatever payment processor they used, as per their buyer protection policies.

@*susiesue*

Re: Fraud :-(

*susiesue* — Sat, 11 Apr 2020 11:03:26 GMT

Thank you for your answering, but PayPal didn't request Proof of Posting, in the original notification from PayPal it stated that...

Our records show tracking information is available for this transaction. We will review this as soon as possible. At this time, we need no further action or information from you. (Copied and pasted from the original email)

PayPal DID NOT specifically ask for anything they told me they needed no further action of information from me!!

Your point would be valid if it was sent to a private buyer but it went to a division of eBay and therefore PayPal is fully aware because they are closely affiliated and even mentioned that tracking is available so they KNOW it was posted

If they have the confirmation email that it was received at the GSP hub then obviously it was posted to the GSP hub otherwise the GSP hub would not have sent me the confirmation email!!

Re: Fraud :-(

Anonymous — Sat, 11 Apr 2020 23:15:51 GMT

Hey @susiesue

I had a similar issue but i avoided using th GSP program.

This case lasted almost 3 months before i won the case.

Buyer claimed unauthorised.

1. Buyer address + paypal verified address matched the ebay order
2. My proof of posting matched the above.
3. I sent proof of everything from order details to proof of posting and screenshots of delivery.

I'd say you do the same.

Then you should win the case.

But if you didn't ensure paypal address and order address matched you might lose the case i only ship out to overseas if they have both of the above checked as i've been a victim to fraud and learnt my lesson.

Hope this helps! good luck.

Re: Fraud :-(

*susiesue* — Sun, 12 Apr 2020 06:21:17 GMT

Hi @prayfulbhapa0

Thank you for your answer

I know the addresses matched because it went to the GSP hub and they emailed to let me know they received it so the POP will match too, once it got to the hub my part of the deal was fulfilled, and PayPal know that not only from the tracking they have I also sent them the confirmation emails in reply to the reminder email.

I'm angry that in the initial PayPal email they told me that they had tracking available so they needed no further action or information from me, then they found against me because I didn't take any action and give them information.

There is a forum like this on the PayPal site that I was looking at last night and it is scary how badly PayPal treat their customers, from keeping their funds on hold for weeks to refunding thousands of dollars in cases like mine even when tho poster has given PayPal everything they asked for.

Normally I leave my funds in my PayPal account as it's handy for online shopping but after reading all that I withdrew most of it and I'd advise anyone reading this to do the same.

I've learned my lesson, if this happens again PayPal will get every scrap of information I have whether they want it or not!

I had a reply from PayPal to my email and they asked for more details so we will see what happens.

Stay safe x