topic Re: just bought on eBay and I saw suddenly a “UK VAT added to price” for the first time is this corr in Buying

just bought on eBay and I saw suddenly a “UK VAT added to price” for the first time is this correct

laugb2001 — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 12:57:14 GMT

Hi,

I just bought an item on eBay and I saw added to the final price before payment a "UK VAT added to price" to a value of 20%. I have never seen that before in more than 18 years on eBay. The seller is in UK and I am also in UK. Is this correct and have I really to pay it?

thanks.

Lau

Re: just bought on eBay and I saw suddenly a “UK VAT added to price” for the first time is this corr

m25jet — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 13:10:25 GMT

This is something that appears to have come about since the United Kingdom's exit from the european union was finalised at the end of last year. Although this is purely a guess on my part, I suspect that instances of 20% VAT being added to UK to UK sales is where the buyer lives in a different part of the UK to the seller. There are four regions to the UK - England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland - so if, for example, the buyer lives in England and the seller lives in Wales this may account for the extra 20%%, in which case it's likely to be down to a bad bit of programming on eBay's part, in which they are treating each of the four regions of the UK as if they are totally separate countries. If, however, this is not the case, then it may be that seller is located outside of the UK but has opened an account on eBay UK and is using a fulfilment centre based in the UK as the item location.

Re: just bought on eBay and I saw suddenly a “UK VAT added to price” for the first time is this corr

laugb2001 — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 13:34:21 GMT

Hi,

first thanks for your reply. The seller is listed as member since 2001 and in UK. The item location is marked as Reading which is within England.
if the seller is indeed in Reading in England, why this did appear?
If the seller is not located in UK, are they entitled to open an account as UK seller? What about the fulfilment centre, can it be in UK as they are not seller based in UK? What does that mean in terms of VAT? Are they entitled to charge for VAT if they pretending to be a UK seller if they are not within UK? How can I know seller is really in UK when his page says he is based in UK?

I am afraid many questions but this is a first for me.

thanks.

Lau

PS: contacted the seller and so far no explanation on why I have been charged.

Re: just bought on eBay and I saw suddenly a “UK VAT added to price” for the first time is this corr

fargvs — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 13:56:08 GMT

Suggest > Check Sellers Country of Registration > 'View Listings/Items for sale' < links and scroll to Seller information in Left Column. (not the listing Item location or sellers Profile Based location which can often be different).

Re: just bought on eBay and I saw suddenly a “UK VAT added to price” for the first time is this corr

laugb2001 — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 14:26:36 GMT

Hi,

thanks for the info and I found it and it says Germany!!!

How come I check he is based on his feedback page that he is UK

Member since: 09-Oct-01 in United Kingdom

and then where you told me I found this: Member since 09-Oct-01 in Germany

Is this legal? The selling page was not mentioning anything about Germany and I would have been careful if I had known he was in Germany as I am used to deal with transaction abroad and so aware of the changes on 1st January. Is he playing both places to claim more money? Can this be reported to eBay and can they do anything about it?

thanks

Lau

Re: just bought on eBay and I saw suddenly a “UK VAT added to price” for the first time is this corr

m25jet — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 15:34:15 GMT

@laugb2001 wrote:
Hi,

thanks for the info and I found it and it says Germany!!!
How come I check he is based on his feedback page that he is UK
Member since: 09-Oct-01 in United Kingdom
and then where you told me I found this: Member since 09-Oct-01 in Germany

Is this legal? The selling page was not mentioning anything about Germany and I would have been careful if I had known he was in Germany as I am used to deal with transaction abroad and so aware of the changes on 1st January. Is he playing both places to claim more money? Can this be reported to eBay and can they do anything about it?
thanks
Lau

If the listing states that the item location is Reading in England but the seller's profile says something like "Based in Germany, this seller has been a member since 9th October 2001" then you could use the Report option on the listing, making sure that you select the option to draw attention to the fact that the seller is providing misleading information as to the location of the item. If the item was located in England then the seller would have to be using a fulfillment centre to send the goods out once the order was placed. A lot of Chinese sellers do this - if you scroll right down the page the business details often give their address as being somewhere such as China or Hong Kong, whereas the item location will often say something like "Portsmouth" instead. In some cases the item is despatched from the UK, even though the seller is based outside the UK, although in some cases the listing gives a misleading impression that the item is located within the UK and once you buy the item from the sale he/she then posts it to your address from a the country that he/she is actually located in, the end result being that you then have to pay Customs charges when the item arrives in the UK!

One other option is that this may be a case of a private seller based in Germany using several eBay sites to advertise his/her items for sale. If the item was really being listed for sale by a seller who lives in the UK and the item really was located in the UK then there shouldn't be any extra VAT to pay on the listing, as the item wouldn't be subject to import duties in the first place.

Re: just bought on eBay and I saw suddenly a “UK VAT added to price” for the first time is this corr

laugb2001 — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 15:58:53 GMT

Hi,

there is nothing in business details when looking at the page with the feedback. The seller also offers collect in person...

I don't know what to think of the whole situation. I dealt with fake goods and other issues in the past but nothing like this.

thanks

Lau

Re: just bought on eBay and I saw suddenly a “UK VAT added to price” for the first time is this corr

tsmgmd — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 16:17:26 GMT

This is nothing to do with Brexit.

The changes to how VAT was collected were settled a few years ago, it's just coincidental that it came into force Jan.

There is nothing wrong with your sellers account.

The item can be located in a warehouse in the UK for distribution or collection, and as you say this is stated on his listing..

His account is registered in Germany, and again there is nothing wrong with this.

Your purchase was from a EU country seller and therefore eBay have to collect VAT on behalf of the UK tax offices or whatever they wish to call themselves nowadays.

You are not the first to complain, the discussion boards and the Q&A boards are full of complaints about this.

Re: just bought on eBay and I saw suddenly a “UK VAT added to price” for the first time is this corr

fargvs — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 16:31:20 GMT

Germany Registered Seller account ... so, their country of registration defines the OMP rules ...see >

1. 'Goods in the UK at the point of sale - sold by an overseas seller through an online marketplace'

2. 'Goods located outside the UK at point of sale'

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-

Re: just bought on eBay and I saw suddenly a “UK VAT added to price” for the first time is this corr

bobandcharlies — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 17:13:55 GMT

I think you will find that this is down to UK VAT laws.

Where a buyer from overseas purchases goods from the UK - and they are not exported and remain in the UK then they are subject to VAT being applied.

Now I know this applies to VAT registered businesses the idea being that you are entitled to zero rate VAT on exports and therefore if the goods are not being exported the seller has to pay the VAT to HMRC

If the goods are inclusive of VAT and the customer has been charged you should refund the VAT to the customer and claim the VAT charged by ebay back on your return.

This is how it always used to work many years ago before the unified market whether the VAT laws have changed for this specific type of transaction I am not sure but it may be the reason

Re: just bought on eBay and I saw suddenly a “UK VAT added to price” for the first time is this corr

jadie13910 — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 17:50:57 GMT

Hi, I purchased 2 x coins from China, total cost £3.50 -- when on PayPal page vat was added, I did not pay and tried to cancel the order - only the seller can cancell, I now have "non payment" strike pending on my 100% feedback.

I telephoned HMRC direct and they confirmed that items costing £15 or less from China are NOT LIABLE TO VAT.

on the seller page it clearly quotes "vat is included in the cost of the item" contacted eBay a number of times they say there is nothing they can do !! Seller has stopped comunicating with me - This has a big impact on buying on eBay in future !!!! I think Amazon will be doing much better than eBay in future, and there refund policy puts eBay to shame !

Goodbye eBay !

Re: just bought on eBay and I saw suddenly a “UK VAT added to price” for the first time is this corr

jadie13910 — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 17:55:22 GMT

Hi, see last post £3.50 from China + vat HMRC should be notified !

Re: just bought on eBay and I saw suddenly a “UK VAT added to price” for the first time is this corr

myriad*seller — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 18:06:40 GMT

@jadie13910 wrote:
Hi, see last post £3.50 from China + vat HMRC should be notified !

HMRC advised you wrongly

The £15 limit was removed on 1st January

ALL items from China (or anywhere outside the UK) are now subject to VAT

Taken from the latest HMRC update on gov.uk

"The new arrangements will also involve the abolition of Low Value Consignment Relief, which relieves import VAT on consignments of goods valued at £15 or less."

"You can read information about how online marketplaces will deal with VAT and overseas goods sold to customers in the UK using online marketplaces from 1 January 2021."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021

Re: just bought on eBay and I saw suddenly a “UK VAT added to price” for the first time is this corr

myriad*seller — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 18:09:54 GMT

This explains why articles located in the UK but sold by an EU seller in Germany are subject to VAT under rules of origin.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/55648201

Re: just bought on eBay and I saw suddenly a “UK VAT added to price” for the first time is this corr

myriad*seller — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 18:13:34 GMT

@m25jet wrote:
This is something that appears to have come about since the United Kingdom's exit from the european union was finalised at the end of last year. Although this is purely a guess on my part, I suspect that instances of 20% VAT being added to UK to UK sales is where the buyer lives in a different part of the UK to the seller. There are four regions to the UK - England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland - so if, for example, the buyer lives in England and the seller lives in Wales this may account for the extra 20%%, in which case it's likely to be down to a bad bit of programming on eBay's part, in which they are treating each of the four regions of the UK as if they are totally separate countries. If, however, this is not the case, then it may be that seller is located outside of the UK but has opened an account on eBay UK and is using a fulfilment centre based in the UK as the item location.

Nope, it has nothing whatsoever to do with that!

We did not dissolve the UNITED Kingdom - we left the European Union!

The UK is still united - there are no customs checks between Scotland and England!

Why did you even type that?

😄 😄 😄 😄

Re: just bought on eBay and I saw suddenly a “UK VAT added to price” for the first time is this corr

bobandcharlies — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 20:06:39 GMT

Good news, ebay and HMRC have been collaborating for some time to stop Chinese sellers deliberately avoiding paying VAT on goods sold in the UK.

Put simply as soon as the first sale is made by a foreign seller on ebay they are liable to pay VAT and to be registered for UK VAT irrespective of value.

Whilst some buyers may think it is ok to avoid paying UK taxes to get a 'cheap' bargain, they are the first to want the benefit that taxes provide and the first to cry foul when services are reduced or withdrawn by the UK government.

This is besides the unlevel playing field that fraud provides for honest UK sellers who not only pay the taxes but also provide back up and support for the UK buyers within their prices.

Yes it is fraud to deliberately avoid paying UK tax against the law of the country which many of the Chinese sellers have been doing at the expense of the UK economy.

As a buyer you should embrace the toughening up by ebay on fraud including the Chinese seller VAT fraud.

You would be the first to complain if you lost money as a victim to fraud and yet are the first to complain when you can no longer benefit from fraud.

I am not sure which is worse being a victim or an accomplice to fraud

And as for Amazon - go ahead and buy on Amazon you will still have to pay the VAT on all purchases from Chinese sellers.

Amazon insist that all foreign sellers are registered for VAT in the country they sell in which means in the UK you will be charged the VAT from Chinese sellers.

Re: just bought on eBay and I saw suddenly a “UK VAT added to price” for the first time is this corr

jadie13910 — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 21:51:57 GMT

Hi thanks for your reply, that is all well and good BUT - The buyer should be informed of this PRIOR to placing an order or clicking "buy it now " On the sellers page, it even clearly states on the sellers page that "vat is included in the item cost" but you only find out when it is too late !!!!

Most people I suspect have no idea and this comes as a shock ! Very unfair to all and I would have thought that eBay have a duty to make this clear to Both parties - We are not all tax or import/export experts - so far from trying to diddle the tax man - we the customer are being "duped" which is unfair to all concerned !

Buying from the US has been known for a long time - My Example = a number of years ago I purchased a guitar from New York, the price was $499.00 shipping was $269.00 total $768.00 add 4.8% import duty = $804.86 THEN add 17.5% vat (the rate at that time) and the total cost of the guitar was $945.72 whis is almost DOUBLE the actual price of the guitar !!!!!! That came as a BIG shock and had I known I would have NOT bought the guitar ! If I wanted to diddle the tax man, I would and could have bought a return flight to New York for $199.00 - stayed overnight in a motel for $48.00 - saved all the charges and brought it back as hand lugage (you could prior to 911) and the guitar would have cost me around $700 all in !!!! But I do think it is or should be made clear to the buyer in the first place.

Anyway, thanks for your reply and the info - Donald Trump could be right about China`s trade after all

Re: just bought on eBay and I saw suddenly a “UK VAT added to price” for the first time is this corr

jadie13910 — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 22:04:57 GMT

Hi Myriadseller, thanks for the link to the tax article - but as you read it lower down there is a section stating that (in short) the original £15 or less is still in force for private buyers ! It gets very complicated - so much so that even HMRC don`t know the rules !!!! as per my lengthy phone call with them this week ! ALSO, Please read my last post in reply to another contributor re:- buying a guitar from US - We are not all experts on tax or export/import duties and rules - Anyway, thanks again for you reply, much appreciated.

Re: just bought on eBay and I saw suddenly a “UK VAT added to price” for the first time is this corr

bobandcharlies — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 22:35:41 GMT

How clear do you want it - this is the information supplied by ebay on each listing from a China based seller

Postage:Free Standard SpeedPAK from China/Hong Kong/Taiwan | See details
International postage of items may be subject to customs processing and additional charges.

Item location:
beijing, China

Posts to:
Worldwide See exclusions

International Postage - items may be subject to customs processing depending on the item's customs value.
Sellers declare the item's customs value and must comply with customs declaration laws.
As the buyer, you should be aware of possible:
- delays from customs inspection.
- import duties and taxes which buyers must pay.
- brokerage fees payable at the point of delivery.
Your country's customs office can offer more details, or visit eBay's page on international trade.

In this case the seller also states

Import duties, taxes and charges are not included in the item price or shipping charges. These charges are the buyer's responsibility. But we will try our best to reduce the risk of customs duties.

Where the advert says under postage and payments

VAT: 20% (included in the listed price). The actual VAT requirements and rates may vary depending on the final sale. Learn more

It links to this information - which you need to read before you purchase

Items delivered to the UK
Value Added Tax (VAT) generally applies to purchases by UK consumers, and prices on eBay.co.uk are shown inclusive of VAT.

Starting 1 January 2021, eBay is required to collect VAT on certain orders delivered to UK addresses:

Orders up to £135 sent from outside the UK
Orders where the item is located in the UK, but the seller is not a UK seller
You'll see the VAT included in your order total at checkout, and you can view and download a tax invoice from the Order details page in your Purchase history.

On orders over £135 imported to the UK, the recipient may need to pay VAT as part of clearing the parcel through customs.

You have simply not read the information provided and made a huge assumption and as a result blamed ebay - they can only give you the information - they are not to blame if you ignore it

Re: just bought on eBay and I saw suddenly a “UK VAT added to price” for the first time is this corr

jadie13910 — Fri, 05 Feb 2021 22:59:14 GMT

Hi, I did not "ignore" anything !!!! II checked the sellers page where it stated " vat 20% is included in the items cost"

Pardon me fot not studying for two years prior to spending £3.50 on two commemorative coins for my gransons -

Looking at the comments, feedback and the confusion - it seems there are an awful lot of people in eBayland who also are not "experts" hence the number of posts about this - The tax system is not designed to be simple as most "normal" people know - if it was I would not need to pay a lot of money to my accountant - I am an expert at my job thats why I get paid a lot of money to practice my trade - PLEASE do not patronise me for not being completely coversant with our tax/export/import laws - I can not know everything - Unlike yourself !