topic Re: Respect and compliance? in The Round Table

Respect and compliance?

cee-dee — Sat, 17 Apr 2021 11:10:16 GMT

Well no-one's posting much now, is it because you've nothing to comment on?

OK then, how about some comments on this?:-

We've seen on the news (You have, haven't you?) of people dying due to a variety of things after they've either been detained or for some action when called to stop?

Now if those people had been compliant and had "done as they were told", they'd still be alive? Also, where did it all start? Didn't it start due to lack of respect for the property of others or lack of respect for the Law and the Law Enforcement officers?

It's fair to say they're "gun happy" in America and often non-compliance leads to a shooting and then supporters of those shot are up in arms and "it's everyone's fault except the offender's"?

The latest is that young lad who was shot dead. He had been armed, but threw the gun away but when he stopped and put his hands up, the cop shot him. Why? Watch the video very, very carefully and due to something in the background, it looks like a gun in his hand. Why shoot him???? Because of things like this?:-

Another case was of a cop pulling a driver over, he spoke to him from the passenger side and asked the bloke to get out of the drivers side and come round to the passenger side away from the traffic. The bloke gets out, walks round the back of his big pick-up and shoots the cop. The cop's on the ground, shot, the bloke walks up to him and shoots him again to make sure the cop's dead.

It's things like that which makes the cops "gun happy"?

Here, few cops are armed so there's less of that but how many times have you seen "something happen" to a detained person and afterwards supporters are howling for (their version of) "justice"?

In the first place it's all down to a complete lack of respect for the Law, respect for anyone else or their property and certainly lack of respect for Law Enforcers.

Re: Respect and compliance?

fallen-archie — Sat, 17 Apr 2021 15:48:29 GMT

Very well put there CD, I too am confused by what is happening, I think it's an age thing! I cannot listen to my own children who always favour the complainant and refuse to listen to reason, I think all this rubbish is being hyped by those with an agenda, it's black and white, Them v Us and many many well meaning sheeple seeking a cause instead of bettering themselves through graft!

Re: Respect and compliance?

cee-dee — Tue, 20 Apr 2021 23:06:26 GMT

I see they've found that American Cop guilty of murder in the Floyd case?

I thought that for murder you had to prove "intent"?

Re: Respect and compliance?

cee-dee — Thu, 22 Apr 2021 18:13:45 GMT

I see those extinction rebellion lot have smashed around 20 windows at HSBC in Canary Wharf?

So, they've not thought that by doing so they've contributed to what they're moaning about? There's the Police manpower needed to deal with them, the vehicles getting them there and back, the manpower needed to board up the windows plus the materials used, then the stuff needed to make more glass, transport it there and fit it all? After that there'll be all the manpower needed when dealing with the issues before, during and after a Court case?

I suppose they think all that lot doesn't "count" towards the thing they're beefing about quite apart from the lack of respect for the property of others??

Re: Respect and compliance?

margaret*e — Thu, 22 Apr 2021 22:14:11 GMT

There's always a rentamob just looking for an excuse to cause mayhem and pretend it's to further their cause.

Re: Respect and compliance?

bankhaunter — Thu, 22 Apr 2021 23:11:27 GMT

Old people, often with some dementia, disrespect the police all the time, thaty's why they have to be tazed and/or thrown to the ground and handcuffed.

Ask Lona Varner who being 85 years old, bedridden and on oxygen made the police fear for their safety.

Or this 73 year old.

Re: Respect and compliance?

cee-dee — Fri, 23 Apr 2021 10:51:24 GMT

For a start, Lorna Varner was 76 when that happened, it was in 2010.

Although on first sight, it appears to be really shocking, indefensible and uncalled for, have you ever seen just how strong people who're drunk, on a drug high or have mental issues are? Often it takes many people to restrain them.

The woman in the video had stolen some flowers and when aprehended tried to kick or actually kicked an officer. What are they supposed to do when someone is fighting and resisting? At such an age, bones and joints are weaker but it didn't stop her fighting the cops did it? OK, so she's got mental problems but how were the cops to know that? Did she have a sign round her neck saying so?

Sure, it looks really bad now, a 73 year old with a broken arm, just how would you have gone about dealing with the situation? It's far too easy to pick out the "juicy bits" and remonstrate with the benefit of hindsight.

Re: Respect and compliance?

*knight-rider* — Sat, 24 Apr 2021 05:03:41 GMT

`just how would you have gone about dealing with the situation?`

To treat a 78 year old like that is disgraceful in my book and had they handled the situation better in the first place, she would`nt have kicked out the way she did. i certainly don`t condone anyone of any age kicking out at cops, but if they connected with people a bit more `humanely` in the first place, i don`t think they`d have the issues they have.

As far as that young lad is concerned who was shot, whether or not he had a gun in his hand, he should not have been concidered a threat untill the gun was pointed at the cops, but it was`nt, because one, he`d already threw it and two, his arms were already in the air, so there was no threat from that lad at all. He certainly did`nt do himself any favours in the first place though by walking round with a gun, because for how often this seems to happen, as much as cops don`t seem to change, people don`t seem to change much as well, because it doesn`t matter what colour you are, you can`t complain about police brutality but then continue to carry guns and knives the way many still do, it`s like getting stopped for no insurance or something on your car but yet carry on doing it and then complain why the cops keep pulling you over 🙂

Re: Respect and compliance?

bankhaunter — Sun, 25 Apr 2021 11:49:36 GMT

Do you really expect me to take you seriously, your comment seemed more like satire.

Lorna Varner was 86 at the time of the offence, or did the writer of the report know it was going to be read ten years later and so adjusted the age to suit.

As for the other woman, you are very quick to rush to judghment with no fact checking.

She was stopped immediately on leaving the Walamrt and gave the items back, the flower she was carrying came from elsewhere.

Of course she struggled, she had dementia and clearly didn't know what was happening, all she knew was she was being attacked.

Frankly I am appalled at your readiness to defend totally unnecessary violence on the part of the police, you disgust me.

Re: Respect and compliance?

cee-dee — Sun, 25 Apr 2021 23:24:40 GMT

Typical, it's everyone elses fault bar the person responsible in the first place.

The message should be "if you're stopped for any reason, be polite and respectful, if you're detained, be compliant."

You can be "detained" without being arrested. Detained means you're held while the facts of the matter are ascertained. You may be released or arrested once those facts are determined.

If you brandish weapons, you should be prepared to suffer the consequences.

As I mentioned, cops have been killed or severely injured by people who wouldn't comply so if you've brandished a weapon or made "sudden movements" when told to keep still, in the heat of the moment it's no wonder a cop uses far more force than appears necessary with the benefit of hindsight.

Re: Respect and compliance?

bankhaunter — Tue, 27 Apr 2021 08:28:46 GMT

Oh deary me, you really think that an elderly person clearly confused, represents danger to a young healthy policemen. Good grief, the woman is almost crying but then, what would you care.

Ever heard of a policeman assessing a situation before using violence, to see what is necessary and not using it as a first response as clearly happenedf in the video.

You didn't even bother to check any facts before issuing your judgment.

You might be interested to know how, when watching the bodycam footage in the police station, the two officers were laughing over it and discussing if they heard the 'pop' as they dislocated her shoulder.

I really hope you are never in a postion of authority over old people, I would pity them if you were.

Re: Respect and compliance?

mr_lincoln — Fri, 30 Apr 2021 14:21:22 GMT

@cee-dee wrote:
I see they've found that American Cop guilty of murder in the Floyd case?

I thought that for murder you had to prove "intent"?

Murder in the 1st Degree is considered premeditated and the death penalty can apply, but that was not the case in the Floyd killing. The officer was charged with counts of 2nd and 3rd degree murder, they do not carry the death penalty.

Mr. L

Re: Respect and compliance?

mr_lincoln — Fri, 30 Apr 2021 14:28:02 GMT

The news you are seeing in the UK is very selective if you are viewing it on CNN, MSNBC, etc. There are always two sides to every story but certain media outlets only broadcast one view which aligns with one particular political party. Impartiality has been thrown out the window. The censoring that is going on is no less dangerous than what occurred in Europe in a certain country where the party in control took over the available forms of media of the day ... we're talking late 1930s thru the early 1940s ... Radio and Cinema were controlled, the masses only saw what the government wanted them to see ... they call that propoganda and history is repeating itself.

Re: Respect and compliance?

edwardian-dreams — Sat, 01 May 2021 21:54:36 GMT

there was intent alright....loads of time in those nine minutes to wonder what if I kill this guy?

Re: Respect and compliance?

edwardian-dreams — Sat, 01 May 2021 22:12:47 GMT

Cops shouldn't shoot to KILL unless the person is a direct danger to others

that immediately makes cops who shoot unarmed people running away murderers IMO

what right have they to take a life if the person is not a danger to others lives

you can't honestly believe all cop shootings are down to the shot persons fault

as for complying

well we know what happens to black people even if they comply so it's often an instinctive reaction to panic

that's all