topic Re: The Universe? in The Round Table

The Universe?

cee-dee — Tue, 29 Sep 2020 21:26:10 GMT

I've just read an article stating that scientists have precisely measured the total amount of matter in the Universe for the first time.

What twaddle! How can you "precisely" do that when you've no idea how big the Universe is?

I think "scientists" should spend their time on something useful instead of mucking about with total guesswork.

Re: The Universe?

right-then-petal — Tue, 29 Sep 2020 22:21:42 GMT

How Much Is It In Total

Re: The Universe?

cee-dee — Tue, 29 Sep 2020 23:10:30 GMT

They didn't say, they were rambling on about percentages of matter, dark matter and dark energy.

Re: The Universe?

bulk_distribution — Mon, 26 Oct 2020 13:43:19 GMT

I thought it was about % too

I don't see any reference to actual units of mass - can you paste the actual figure?

Re: The Universe?

bulk_distribution — Mon, 26 Oct 2020 13:49:24 GMT

Plus l would have thought the ratio would be implicit in e = mc^2 i.e. e/m = c^2

Re: The Universe?

cee-dee — Mon, 26 Oct 2020 14:48:30 GMT

A different (but similar) article:-

https://astronomynow.com/2020/09/28/scientists-precisely-measure-total-amount-of-matter-in-the-cosmos/#:~:text=Scientists%20at%20the%20University%20of,normal%20and%20dark%20matter%20contributing

It clearly states that they have "precisely measured the total amount of matter".

An "amount" is surely a quantity? They've not "measured" anything, they've used guesswork precision to come up with some supposed percentages.

As in times of old, when something couldn't be adequately explained, they used to come up with some mythological "thing" or being to fill in the gap(s).

It seems to me nothing has changed?

Re: The Universe?

upthecreekyetagain — Tue, 27 Oct 2020 17:02:10 GMT

Two observations on that post CD 🙂

First is that the 'claim' you quote is actually a headline in a journal, which like many headlines in other publications often doesn't actually reflect the 'truth' of the story - the actual claim made s, "We have succeeded in making one of the most precise measurements ever made using the galaxy cluster technique,"

Not quite the same thing, I'm sure you'll agree.

The second observation is that it is very easy to dismiss a claim because you don't understand the calculation behind how something that is being claimed. I certainly don't understand it but I'm not willing to dismiss it out of hand because of that. Of course you may be able to prove that the claim is not correct.

Re: The Universe?

cee-dee — Tue, 27 Oct 2020 19:16:10 GMT

Where the heck have you been hiding? You've been missed.

The claim cannot possibly be correct because as they say themselves, they're "counting" something even they themselves cannot quantify or explain.

As to the headline in a journal, I first saw it someplace else and there are other similar headlines.

Re: The Universe?

upthecreekyetagain — Tue, 27 Oct 2020 20:29:09 GMT

When the claim is, as I quoted, "We have succeeded in making one of the most precise measurements ever made using the galaxy cluster technique", then of course it can be true.

All that is being claimed is that using a particular technique they've calculated one of the most precise measurements.

I stopped posting here because it got silly - a number of my posts seemed to disappear for no discernible reason - I've always tried to address the post not the poster yet still manage to upset some people - life's too short.

Re: The Universe?

cee-dee — Tue, 27 Oct 2020 22:03:11 GMT

But what have they measured? They claim to have precisely measured something that's only theoretical?

Re: The Universe?

upthecreekyetagain — Tue, 27 Oct 2020 22:18:46 GMT

I haven't the faintest idea and the relevance to me on a personal basis is zero.

What I do find relevant and far too common is the way in which stories are written and headlined. In ways which are hyperbolic and often deliberately misleading.

Re: The Universe?

cee-dee — Tue, 27 Oct 2020 22:54:04 GMT

Yes, I agree that sometimes a headline is grossly misleading, over exaggerated and sometimes has little to do with the content of the news item. It's just media sensationalism.

Re: The Universe?

bulk_distribution — Wed, 28 Oct 2020 00:04:09 GMT

You have a point. They have determined a proportion (though in itself l cannot comprehend it as the things being compared aren't measured in the same units - energy vs. matter isn't the same as proportion of boys to girls - whom are both same species).

The headlines and even the articles, speak of amount.

The arguments for a god (if that's what you were referring to about ancient times) are a separate matter though and well worthy of debate but l cannot join in as l'm in my business suit with this ID.

Re: The Universe?

cee-dee — Wed, 28 Oct 2020 00:16:10 GMT

We've had many threads on here arguing for and against the existence or otherwise of supreme beings but they kept getting hijacked by a member of a sect and sometimes became abusive which put off many members from joining in for fear of being targeted. Threads about the universe, it's existence and possible creation were similarly hijacked by the same member under different IDs.

As to your business suit... change in to jeans and tee shirt?